The Worst President in History? One of America’s leading historians assesses George W. Bush George W. Bush’s presidency appears headed for colossal historical disgrace. Barring a cataclysmic event on the order of the terrorist attacks of September 11th, after which the public might rally around the White House once again, there seems to be little the administration can do to avoid being ranked on the lowest tier of U.S. presidents. And that may be the best-case scenario. Many historians are now wondering whether Bush, in fact, will be remembered as the very worst president in all of American history. From time to time, after hours, I kick back with my colleagues at Princeton to argue idly about which president really was the worst of them all. For years, these perennial debates have largely focused on the same handful of chief executives whom national polls of historians, from across the ideological and political spectrum, routinely cite as the bottom of the presidential barrel. Was the lousiest James Buchanan, who, confronted with Southern secession in 1860, dithered to a degree that, as his most recent biographer has said, probably amounted to disloyalty — and who handed to his successor, Abraham Lincoln, a nation already torn asunder? Was it Lincoln’s successor, Andrew Johnson, who actively sided with former Confederates and undermined Reconstruction? What about the amiably incompetent Warren G. Harding, whose administration was fabulously corrupt? Or, though he has his defenders, Herbert Hoover, who tried some reforms but remained imprisoned in his own outmoded individualist ethic and collapsed under the weight of the stock-market crash of 1929 and the Depression’s onset? The younger historians always put in a word for Richard M. Nixon, the only American president forced to resign from office. Now, though, George W. Bush is in serious contention for the title of worst ever. In early 2004, an informal survey of 415 historians conducted by the nonpartisan History News Network found that eighty-one percent considered the Bush administration a "failure." Among those who called Bush a success, many gave the president high marks only for his ability to mobilize public support and get Congress to go along with what one historian called the administration’s "pursuit of disastrous policies." In fact, roughly one in ten of those who called Bush a success was being facetious, rating him only as the best president since Bill Clinton — a category in which Bush is the only contestant. The lopsided decision of historians should give everyone pause. Contrary to popular stereotypes, historians are generally a cautious bunch. We assess the past from widely divergent points of view and are deeply concerned about being viewed as fair and accurate by our colleagues. When we make historical judgments, we are acting not as voters or even pundits, but as scholars who must evaluate all the evidence, good, bad or indifferent. Separate surveys, conducted by those perceived as conservatives as well as liberals, show remarkable unanimity about who the best and worst presidents have been. Historians do tend, as a group, to be far more liberal than the citizenry as a whole — a fact the president’s admirers have seized on to dismiss the poll results as transparently biased. One pro-Bush historian said the survey revealed more about "the current crop of history professors" than about Bush or about Bush’s eventual standing. But if historians were simply motivated by a strong collective liberal bias, they might be expected to call Bush the worst president since his father, or Ronald Reagan, or Nixon. Instead, more than half of those polled — and nearly three-fourths of those who gave Bush a negative rating — reached back before Nixon to find a president they considered as miserable as Bush. The presidents most commonly linked with Bush included Hoover, Andrew Johnson and Buchanan. Twelve percent of the historians polled — nearly as many as those who rated Bush a success — flatly called Bush the worst president in American history. And these figures were gathered before the debacles over Hurricane Katrina, Bush’s role in the Valerie Plame leak affair and the deterioration of the situation in Iraq. Were the historians polled today, that figure would certainly be higher. Even worse for the president, the general public, having once given Bush the highest approval ratings ever recorded, now appears to be coming around to the dismal view held by most historians. To be sure, the president retains a considerable base of supporters who believe in and adore him, and who reject all criticism with a mixture of disbelief and fierce contempt — about one-third of the electorate. (When the columnist Richard Reeves publicized the historians’ poll last year and suggested it might have merit, he drew thousands of abusive replies that called him an idiot and that praised Bush as, in one writer’s words, "a Christian who actually acts on his deeply held beliefs.") Yet the ranks of the true believers have thinned dramatically. A majority of voters in forty-three states now disapprove of Bush’s handling of his job. Since the commencement of reliable polling in the 1940s, only one twice-elected president has seen his ratings fall as low as Bush’s in his second term: Richard Nixon, during the months preceding his resignation in 1974. No two-term president since polling began has fallen from such a height of popularity as Bush’s (in the neighborhood of ninety percent, during the patriotic upswell following the 2001 attacks) to such a low (now in the midthirties). No president, including Harry Truman (whose ratings sometimes dipped below Nixonian levels), has experienced such a virtually unrelieved decline as Bush has since his high point. Apart from sharp but temporary upticks that followed the commencement of the Iraq war and the capture of Saddam Hussein, and a recovery during the weeks just before and after his re-election, the Bush trend has been a profile in fairly steady disillusionment. * * * * How does any president’s reputation sink so low? The reasons are best understood as the reverse of those that produce presidential greatness. In almost every survey of historians dating back to the 1940s, three presidents have emerged as supreme successes: George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt. These were the men who guided the nation through what historians consider its greatest crises: the founding era after the ratification of the Constitution, the Civil War, and the Great Depression and Second World War. Presented with arduous, at times seemingly impossible circumstances, they rallied the nation, governed brilliantly and left the republic more secure than when they entered office. Calamitous presidents, faced with enormous difficulties — Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Hoover and now Bush — have divided the nation, governed erratically and left the nation worse off. In each case, different factors contributed to the failure: disastrous domestic policies, foreign-policy blunders and military setbacks, executive misconduct, crises of credibility and public trust. Bush, however, is one of the rarities in presidential history: He has not only stumbled badly in every one of these key areas, he has also displayed a weakness common among the greatest presidential failures — an unswerving adherence to a simplistic ideology that abjures deviation from dogma as heresy, thus preventing any pragmatic adjustment to changing realities. Repeatedly, Bush has undone himself, a failing revealed in each major area of presidential performance. * * * * THE CREDIBILITY GAP No previous president appears to have squandered the public’s trust more than Bush has. In the 1840s, President James Polk gained a reputation for deviousness over his alleged manufacturing of the war with Mexico and his supposedly covert pro-slavery views. Abraham Lincoln, then an Illinois congressman, virtually labeled Polk a liar when he called him, from the floor of the House, "a bewildered, confounded and miserably perplexed man" and denounced the war as "from beginning to end, the sheerest deception." But the swift American victory in the war, Polk’s decision to stick by his pledge to serve only one term and his sudden death shortly after leaving office spared him the ignominy over slavery that befell his successors in the 1850s. With more than two years to go in Bush’s second term and no swift victory in sight, Bush’s reputation will probably have no such reprieve. The problems besetting Bush are of a more modern kind than Polk’s, suited to the television age — a crisis both in confidence and credibility. In 1965, Lyndon Johnson’s Vietnam travails gave birth to the phrase "credibility gap," meaning the distance between a president’s professions and the public’s perceptions of reality. It took more than two years for Johnson’s disapproval rating in the Gallup Poll to reach fifty-two percent in March 1968 — a figure Bush long ago surpassed, but that was sufficient to persuade the proud LBJ not to seek re-election. Yet recently, just short of three years after Bush buoyantly declared "mission accomplished" in Iraq, his disapproval ratings have been running considerably higher than Johnson’s, at about sixty percent. More than half the country now considers Bush dishonest and untrustworthy, and a decisive plurality consider him less trustworthy than his predecessor, Bill Clinton — a figure still attacked by conservative zealots as "Slick Willie." Previous modern presidents, including Truman, Reagan and Clinton, managed to reverse plummeting ratings and regain the public’s trust by shifting attention away from political and policy setbacks, and by overhauling the White House’s inner circles. But Bush’s publicly expressed view that he has made no major mistakes, coupled with what even the conservative commentator William F. Buckley Jr. calls his "high-flown … read more »

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Bruce, Take a fucking break. If I (*we* ? ) wanted to know this shit, we can look it up too.

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Hey, where’s Ed? Anyone know? Freep

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Probably floating past an oil platform in the Gulf about now… Seriously though, are you OK Ellie? Chuck

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Well, unless I missed it, I don’t think he has posted since the water started running. Anyone know? Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Probably floating past an oil platform in the Gulf about now… > Seriously though, are you OK Ellie? > Chuck

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> Well, unless I missed it, I don’t think he has posted since the water > started running. Anyone know? > Freep > Probably floating past an oil platform in the Gulf about now… > Seriously though, are you OK Ellie? > Chuck

Haven’t heard from him/seen him around. Not sure where his home is, but his shop -has- to be under water as it’s located right in the middle of the 10/610 beltway. A phone call returns "all ckts. are busy". What a mess & a shame! bk

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, unless I missed it, I don’t think he has posted since the water > started running. Anyone know? > Freep > > Probably floating past an oil platform in the Gulf about now… > > Seriously though, are you OK Ellie? > > Chuck > Haven’t heard from him/seen him > around. Not sure where his home > is, but his shop -has- to be > under water as it’s located right > in the middle of the 10/610 beltway. > A phone call returns "all ckts. are busy". > What a mess & a shame! > bk

"Prediction: one day Wilbur you are gonna piss off someone more pissed than EP who may just want to bomb you and your shop. And when it happens, I will have a hard time trying to stop laughing."                  - Ed Blum, 10/07/02 – Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it?  Am I permitted a smirk? Lord Valve American

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Had he mentioned to anyone that he was heading for the hills ahead of the storm, at least? Or do we think he went down with the ship? Lars

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> Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it?

It’s not Karma, it’s a hurricane. Karma: n : (Hinduism and Buddhism) the effects of a person’s actions that determine his destiny in his next incarnation Hurricane: n : A severe tropical cyclone originating in the equatorial regions of the Atlantic Ocean or Caribbean Sea or eastern regions of the Pacific Ocean, traveling north, northwest, or northeast from its point of origin, and usually involving heavy rains. See? >Am I permitted a smirk?

Sure. Best time to activate smirk muscles would be a few seconds after he shows up, safe. bk

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> Best time to activate > smirk muscles would be a few > seconds after he shows up, safe.

What if he doesn’t? Lars

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> Hey, where’s Ed? Anyone know? > Freep

I just heard a report live from N’awlins… The French Quarter is apparently built on the highest ground around… no pun intended… so it avoided the flooding. Many of the bars did not close at all during the storm… and plenty of patrons were observed outside with cocktails in hand, before, during, and after the storm. The report said one bar, with plywood coverings its windows, had painted a slogan on the plywood….  "We will not die sober"…. My guess is Elmis is/was there. Anyone truly interested can do a little research on the Net, find maps, find his shop on the map, and look at the "flood maps", etc. to see if his shop got hit. With power out for up to a month or more, we may not hear from Ed for a while.  If so, enjoy it while you can. Also, if you’re inclined to feel sorry for Blumby, understand that he is not able to bleat, howl, and blather on the AGA in his lifelong attempt at saving "lemming drones" from big business, the Bush Admin, and LV. Blumby repeatedly claims that his rantings and filth laden posts are his "entertainment"… so he may have to entertain himself another way for awhile. For HIS sake (and the sake of people whose amps are in his shop) I hope he has insurance…  but insurance is "big business" at it’s worst, so who knows…. gtski

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> Had he mentioned to anyone that he was heading for the hills ahead of > the storm, at least? Or do we think he went down with the ship? > Lars

Yo…   rats NEVER go down with the ship. gtski

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<snip> > gtski

Didja ever watch Chester the terrier and Spike the bulldog? bk

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I thought the hurrican was caused by God being angry at fags, or was it cause we created idols and placed them in 7-11s?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Well, unless I missed it, I don’t think he has posted since the water > > started running. Anyone know? > > Freep > > > Probably floating past an oil platform in the Gulf about now… > > > Seriously though, are you OK Ellie? > > > Chuck > Haven’t heard from him/seen him > around. Not sure where his home > is, but his shop -has- to be > under water as it’s located right > in the middle of the 10/610 beltway. > A phone call returns "all ckts. are busy". > What a mess & a shame! > bk >"Prediction: one day Wilbur you are gonna piss off someone >more pissed than EP who may just want to bomb you and your >shop. And when it happens, I will have a hard time trying >to stop laughing." >                 – Ed Blum, 10/07/02 – >Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it?  Am I permitted a smirk? >Lord Valve >American

Yep, you got an honest smirk. I hope the decent people over at Peavey are okay. Anybody got word on how they’re doing? Ron Yeah, that Ron.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > Well, unless I missed it, I don’t think he has posted since the water >> > started running. Anyone know? >> > Freep >> > > Probably floating past an oil platform in the Gulf about now… >> > > Seriously though, are you OK Ellie? >> > > Chuck >> Haven’t heard from him/seen him >> around. Not sure where his home >> is, but his shop -has- to be >> under water as it’s located right >> in the middle of the 10/610 beltway. >> A phone call returns "all ckts. are busy". >> What a mess & a shame! >> bk >"Prediction: one day Wilbur you are gonna piss off someone >more pissed than EP who may just want to bomb you and your >shop. And when it happens, I will have a hard time trying >to stop laughing." >                 – Ed Blum, 10/07/02 – >Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it?  Am I permitted a smirk? >Lord Valve >American >Yep, you got an honest smirk. >I hope the decent people over at Peavey are okay. Anybody got word on how >they’re doing? >Ron >Yeah, that Ron.

RonSonic!   Long time. I didn’t realize that Peavey was in that area at all. I would assume that Peavey wouldn’t be foolish enough to build anything on low ground, so I somehow doubt that they got flooded out. Although, I wouldn’t bet my life on that. Pete — I saved your mechanical man from certain damnation. For his frail, electronic eyes had gazed upon the impenetrable! He was an unwilling beholder to the impossible!  –Dr. Orpheus

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>RonSonic!   >Long time.

Yes, too long. Hi Ron!! >I didn’t realize that Peavey was in that area at all. >I would assume that Peavey wouldn’t be foolish enough to build >anything on low ground, so I somehow doubt that they got flooded out.

Isn’t the whole of Mississippi built on low ground? -DC

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> I thought the hurrican was caused by God being angry at fags

Well, N.O. *is* unquestionably the Gomorrah of the USA; now, if our undisputed Sodom, San Francisco, *also* goes away somehow this week, well… I’m not predicting it, mind; it’s just that, well, if people are going to go bringing the Wrath of God into the discussion… Lars

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Shepard Smith on Fox News, who yesterday was overly optimistic from his reports in the French Quarter, appears to be the first on the news networks to actually get it: IT’S OVER FOR NEW ORLEANS. Please donate. Smith said martial law has been declared, and all journalists have been ordered out of the city (no other confirmation on expulsion of journalists, but authorities are likely too busy to arrest them yet anyway). The situation is getting exponentially worse, there are no resources, it is only going to become more and more "impossible to sustain life" in New Orleans. There are people dying there right now, trapped by the rising floodwaters — up to a total of approximately 97,000 people, according to the mayor’s own (obviously rough) estimate. The worst-case scenario is unfolding, and New Orleans will be uninhabitable for the foreseeable future. MeanBoneII’s diary :: :: and Plaquemines Parish are under martial law and the floodwaters are expected to rise to lake level. UPDATE 2: The mayor has now ordered an emergency evacuation of the entire city. Important to note: Mayor Nagin estimated that about 80% of the city’s 485,000 people evacuated before the storm. That has to be a very rough estimate and HOPEFULLY VERY LOW. If about 20% of the residents are still in the city, that’s approximately 97,000 people. Up to 20,000 (see Update 6) or so are at the Superdome. That could leave about 77,000 trapped in homes rapidly flooding with toxic water, with no food or water or way to get out. UPDATE 3: Bush is finally canceling his vacation and speeches in front of hand-picked audiences and returning to Washington as the enormity of this disaster becomes clear. Somebody apparently told him it’s time to look like he’s in charge again. UPDATE 4: Conditions at the Superdome are drastically deteriorating. Local reporter on scene tells CNN a man intentionally jumped to his death from the second level balcony in the dome. Water is rising around the dome, as victims with serious injuries are brought to the dome where they could soon be trapped. UPDATE 5: There are numerous reports of rampant "looting" in the city, but given the extreme life-or-death nature of these conditions, the vast majority of the thousands still in New Orleans are certainly just desperately grabbing any food, water and supplies they can get to stay alive. UPDATE 6: Jeanne Meserve on CNN reports it is now estimated 15,000-20,000 people are at the Superdome. Rescuers are bringing victims to the dome, which is still above but surrounded by rising water. Hopefully the mayor was way off on his guess that nearly 100,000 people were in New Orleans when the storm hit yesterday. FINAL UPDATE (diary is overbloated): WWLTV is reporting that Jefferson Parish President says residents will probably be allowed back in town in a week, with identification only, but only to get essentials and clothing. They will then be asked to leave and not come back for one month. I’d guess that the word "probably" is being used loosely and "asked" really means "ordered." Looks like wishful thinking. Please donate for those victims who have lost everything but their lives. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I thought the hurrican was caused by God being angry at fags > Well, N.O. *is* unquestionably the Gomorrah of the USA; now, if our > undisputed Sodom, San Francisco, *also* goes away somehow this week, > well… > I’m not predicting it, mind; it’s just that, well, if people are going > to go bringing the Wrath of God into the discussion… > Lars

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>From Steve Gregory at the Weather Underground:

40,000-50,000; people in the superdome, including seriously injured people, and evacuees from the Hospitals. There are no running water or sewage facilities–and no power. Temperatures are in the 90’s within the building. One man just committed suicide by jumping. ‘Unrest’ is growing within the superdome–and there are now military as well civilian police on the scene. There are now several major fires in view of city. There is evidently a fair amount of oil and gas floating on the flood waters. Water is still rising and the Mayor is just now being evacuated by helicopter as City hall is now surrounded. This is turning into a ’slow motion version’ of the worst case scenario for New Orleans. Untold numbers of dead – likely in the hundreds and possibly near 1,000 or more. LOCAL UPDATES (Text only) & LIVE STREAMING VIDEO Better Streaming Video. (IE-PC only HT: Pandora in comments) DarkSyde’s diary :: :: Water is still rising and the Mayor is just now being evacuated by helicopter as City hall is now surrounded by water that can only be reached by small boat, water is about 3 feet deep at the steps of City Hall.  80% of New Orleans is totally submerged now, and will likely become 100% submerged tonight. The depth of the water in the BIZ district is around 6-10 inches at this time. This is a result of 2 MAJOR BREACHES OF THE LEVEE.  The first one ,is about 400 feet long, and appears to have given way around 9PM last night.  The Corp of Engineers have now said there is also a second breach as well.  Within the hour the Pentagon will be taking over the coordination and manpower/machinery to assist in closing the 2 breaches. The COE indicates there is no other way to resolve the problem, and they will be using huge cranes, barges of sand and intend to ‘plug’ the breached area.  Until that is accomplished, News Orleans will continue to fill up with water. No time table is known on how long it will take. The COE indicated they have ‘great concern’ for the a specific pumping station – the largest in the world — and it will be eventually used to drain the water out of the city after the levee has been repaired. This is turning into a ’slow motion version’ of the worst case scenario for New Orleans.  Over 1,200 people have been rescued by 40 coast guard recovery helicopters where people are standing on roofs – since yesterday.  Untold numbers of dead – likely in the hundreds and possibly near 1,000 or more. Disease is expected to take a heavy toll within days.  This could claim thousands of lives.  The key seemingly is to somehow to evacuate everyone from the city.  Whether this can be done I have no clue. ELSEWHERE: Video  from the air just now showed the complete devastation of the coastal area from Mobile west to Gulfport.  An oil platform (LARGE) was brought across D auphin island and dumped to the north of the island just south of that mouth of Mobile Bay. TROPICS: A strong wave -0 that briefly was classified as a Tropical depression, is drifting WNW, and showing no sign or organizing. However, the global models are indicating that conditions will become more conducive for development of this system, located about 1500 miles east of the Lesser Antilles. Steve didn’t come right out and say it at the end there. But his concern is that another storm, even a moderate thundershower, would screw up the levies more at this point. A major tropical depression hitting the area now would kill a ton of people.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->RonSonic!   >Long time. >Yes, too long. Hi Ron!! >I didn’t realize that Peavey was in that area at all. >I would assume that Peavey wouldn’t be foolish enough to build >anything on low ground, so I somehow doubt that they got flooded out. >Isn’t the whole of Mississippi built on low ground? >-DC

I’ve never visited New Orleans, but apparently the French settled on higher land.  Which you logically do when you’re dealing with a river, especially one that size. I’m sure that it’s much flatter land in Loisanna, but farther up north here, many of the towns bordering along the river are *way* above sea level.  So the Missisippi itself is low, but not everything near it is. I’m sure that — I saved your mechanical man from certain damnation. For his frail, electronic eyes had gazed upon the impenetrable! He was an unwilling beholder to the impossible!  –Dr. Orpheus

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> Many of the bars did not close at all during the storm… and plenty > of patrons were observed outside with cocktails in hand, before, > during, and after the storm. The report said one bar, with plywood > coverings its windows, had painted a slogan on the plywood….  "We > will not die sober"…. > My guess is Elmis is/was there.

If he was, he’s stranded there now, and with the levee broke (cue Led Zeppelin) the FQ is under water half way up the buildings, too. Actually, it might be worse this way, once the mosquitoes and so on get up to speed the next coupla days. Myself, I’d rather drown, than die of cholera. Do you think that if he got out ahead of the posse, he’d have written in from wherever he is by now? He is an idiot, but he’s OUR idiot — sort of a mascot. And if he doesn’t make it out, Zootwoman might decide that SHE’S the village idiot now. Lars

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>RonSonic!   >>Long time. >Yes, too long. Hi Ron!! >>I didn’t realize that Peavey was in that area at all. >>I would assume that Peavey wouldn’t be foolish enough to build >>anything on low ground, so I somehow doubt that they got flooded out. >Isn’t the whole of Mississippi built on low ground? >-DC >I’ve never visited New Orleans, but apparently the French settled on >higher land.  Which you logically do when you’re dealing with a river, >especially one that size. >I’m sure that it’s much flatter land in Loisanna, but farther up north >here, many of the towns bordering along the river are *way* above sea >level.  So the Missisippi itself is low, but not everything near it >is. >I’m sure that

Damn shortcut key sent that before I finished! I’m sure that New Orleans was settled originally for trade purposes along the big river, and that the people who expanded the area chose their land less carefully. Pete — I saved your mechanical man from certain damnation. For his frail, electronic eyes had gazed upon the impenetrable! He was an unwilling beholder to the impossible!  –Dr. Orpheus

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Thousands of Hurricane Katrina refugees in New Orleans’ 10 shelters must be evacuated, given the deteriorating situation, says Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco. "The situation is untenable,” Blanco said at a news conference on Tuesday. "It’s just heartbreaking.” The storm’s devastating impact on New Orleans is worsening as floodwater from breakdowns in the levee system steadily fills the city’s streets. Blanco said the power could be out for a long time, and with the break of a major water main, no drinkable water is available. A historical marina in the city was in flames, with no crews available to extinguish the blaze, as officials worked feverishly to search for residents who waited to be rescued. New Orleans had appeared to dodge a catastrophe on Monday despite forecasters’ predictions that the city, which lies mostly below sea level, would be overwhelmed by Katrina. But by Tuesday, conditions began to deteriorate when the water began to steadily rise. Water lapped at the edge of the city’s historic French Quarter after failed pumps and levees sent water from nearby Lake Pontchartrain coursing through the streets. "It’s a very slow rise, and it will remain so until we plug that breach. I think we can get it stabilized in a few hours," Terry Ebbert, New Orleans’ homeland security chief told The Associated Press. Officials are planning to use helicopters to drop sandbags on the breach to stop the flow of water, which would normally have been evacuated by a network of pumps. The city of 480,000 was mostly evacuated over the weekend as Katrina closed in, but some refused to leave — or else they were too poor or sick to go on their own. The U.S. Coast Guard has dispatched helicopters to pluck residents from the roofs of their homes where they sought refuge. Boats are also being used. An estimated 40,000 homes in St. Bernard Parish, just east of New Orleans, are submerged. In many instances, people had climbed into their attics to escape rising floodwaters. In those cases, either residents, police or the U.S. Coast Guard were forced to cut holes in their roofs to allow escape. There were stories of some people blasting exit holes in their roofs with shotguns. While bodies were seen floating in the streets, no deaths have officially been confirmed yet. Mayor Ray Nagin said 80 per cent of the city was underwater, and in some places, the water was nearly seven metres deep. Tulane University Medical Center Vice President Karen Troyer-Caraway told CNN earlier Tuesday that officials were considering evacuating its 1,000 patients because the downtown hospital was surrounded by 6 feet of water. "The water is rising so fast I cannot begin to describe how quickly it’s rising," she said. Looting breaks out Meanwhile, looting broke out in New Orleans’ Canal Street, the main thoroughfare in the central business district, which was being described as a literal canal this afternoon. Looters waded through hip-deep water and cleaned out abandoned clothing and jewellery stores, sometimes in full view of passing police officers. At a Walgreen’s drug store in the French Quarter, people were seen running out with baskets and coolers brimming with soft drinks, chips and diapers. The crowd scattered when a young boy noticed police and screamed: "86! 86!" — the radio code for police. One man who had an estimated 10 pairs of jeans in his arms was asked if he was trying to save items from his store. "No," the man shouted, "that’s EVERYBODY’S store." Another woman dismissed the suggestion that she and her husband were stealing from a Winn-Dixie supermarket as she left with a plastic bag filled with items. "It’s about survival right now," she told AP. "We got to feed our children. I’ve got eight grandchildren to feed." Residents weren’t the only people raiding abandoned stores. Two police officers stood guard outside a drug store on Canal Street as Ritz-Carlton Hotel employees packed large laundry bins full of medication, snack foods and bottled water. "This is for the sick," Officer Jeff Jacob said. "We can commandeer whatever we see fit, whatever is necessary to maintain law."

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> Damn shortcut key sent that before I finished!

That happened to me once, and the dumb people all decided I was secretly Freep. Lars

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->RonSonic!   >Long time. >Yes, too long. Hi Ron!! >I didn’t realize that Peavey was in that area at all. >I would assume that Peavey wouldn’t be foolish enough to build >anything on low ground, so I somehow doubt that they got flooded out. >Isn’t the whole of Mississippi built on low ground? >-DC

It may all depend on how high the high ground they may have built on is.  I’ve heard reports of water 20′ deep in spots, and rising. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

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courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Many of the bars did not close at all during the storm… and plenty > of patrons were observed outside with cocktails in hand, before, > during, and after the storm. The report said one bar, with plywood > coverings its windows, had painted a slogan on the plywood….  "We > will not die sober"…. > My guess is Elmis is/was there. >If he was, he’s stranded there now, and with the levee broke (cue Led >Zeppelin) the FQ is under water half way up the buildings, too. >Actually, it might be worse this way, once the mosquitoes and so on get >up to speed the next coupla days. Myself, I’d rather drown, than die of >cholera. >Do you think that if he got out ahead of the posse, he’d have written >in from wherever he is by now? He is an idiot, but he’s OUR idiot — >sort of a mascot. And if he doesn’t make it out, Zootwoman might decide >that SHE’S the village idiot now. >Lars

Your compassion for fellow human beings is duly noted. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas,  Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, the rest of the  Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE)  and, at his own request, Karl Rovershank (aka Lars from Mars) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/

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November 14, 2004 FRANK RICH On ‘Moral Values,’ It’s Blue in a Landslide FAREWELL to Swift boats and "Shove it!," to Osama’s tape and Saddam’s missing weapons, to "security moms" and outsourced dads. They’ve all been sent to history’s dustbin faster than Ralph Nader memorabilia was dumped on eBay. In their stead stands a single ambiguous phrase coined by an anonymous exit pollster: "Moral values." By near universal agreement the morning after, these two words tell the entire story of the election: it’s the culture, stupid. "It really is Michael Moore versus Mel Gibson," said Newt Gingrich. To Jon Stewart, Nov. 2 was the red states’ revenge on "Will & Grace." William Safire, speaking on "Meet the Press," called the Janet Jackson fracas "the social-political event of the past year." Karl Rove was of the same mind: "I think it’s people who are concerned about the coarseness of our culture, about what they see on the television sets, what they see in the movies …" And let’s not even get started on the two most dreaded words in American comedy, regardless of your party affiliation: Whoopi Goldberg. There’s only one problem with the storyline proclaiming that the country swung to the right on cultural issues in 2004. Like so many other narratives that immediately calcify into our 24/7 media’s conventional wisdom, it is fiction. Everything about the election results – and about American culture itself – confirms an inescapable reality: John Kerry’s defeat notwithstanding, it’s blue America, not red, that is inexorably winning the culture war, and by a landslide. Kerry voters who have been flagellating themselves since Election Day with a vengeance worthy of "The Passion of the Christ" should wake up and smell the Chardonnay. The blue ascendancy is nearly as strong among Republicans as it is among Democrats. Those whose "moral values" are invested in cultural heroes like the accused loofah fetishist Bill O’Reilly and the self-gratifying drug consumer Rush Limbaugh are surely joking when they turn apoplectic over MTV. William Bennett’s name is now as synonymous with Las Vegas as silicone. The Democrats’ Ashton Kutcher is trumped by the Republicans’ Britney Spears. Excess and vulgarity, as always, enjoy a vast, bipartisan constituency, and in a democracy no political party will ever stamp them out. If anyone is laughing all the way to the bank this election year, it must be the undisputed king of the red cultural elite, Rupert Murdoch. Fox News is a rising profit center within his News Corporation, and each red-state dollar that it makes can be plowed back into the rest of Fox’s very blue entertainment portfolio. The Murdoch cultural stable includes recent books like Jenna Jameson’s "How to Make Love Like a Porn Star" and the Vivid Girls’ "How to Have a XXX Sex Life," which have both been synergistically, even joyously, promoted on Fox News by willing hosts like Rita Cosby and, needless to say, Mr. O’Reilly. There are "real fun parts and exciting parts," said Ms. Cosby to Ms. Jameson on Fox News’s "Big Story Weekend," an encounter broadcast on Saturday at 9 p.m., assuring its maximum exposure to unsupervised kids. Almost unnoticed in the final weeks of the campaign was the record government indecency fine levied against another prime-time Fox television product, "Married by America." The $1.2 million bill, a mere bagatelle to Murdoch stockholders, was more than twice the punishment inflicted on Viacom for Janet Jackson’s "wardrobe malfunction." According to the F.C.C. complaint, one episode in this heterosexual marriage-promoting reality show included scenes in which "partygoers lick whipped cream from strippers’ bodies," and two female strippers "playfully spank" a man on all fours in his underwear. "Married by America" is gone now, but Fox remains the go-to network for Paris Hilton ("The Simple Life") and wife-swapping ("Trading Spouses: Meet Your New Mommy"). None of this has prompted an uprising from the red-state Fox News loyalists supposedly so preoccupied with "moral values." They all gladly contribute fungible dollars to Fox culture by boosting their fair-and-balanced channel’s rise in the ratings. Some of these red staters may want to make love like porn stars besides. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.) An ABC News poll two weeks before the election found that more Republicans than Democrats enjoy sex "a great deal." The Democrats’ new hero, Illinois Senator-elect Barack Obama, was assured victory once his original, ostentatiously pious Republican opponent, Jack Ryan, dropped out of the race rather than defend his taste for "avant-garde" sex clubs. The 22 percent of voters who told pollsters that "moral values" were their top election issue – 79 percent of whom voted for Bush-Cheney – corresponds almost exactly to the number of voters (23 percent) who describe themselves as born-again or evangelical Christians. They are entitled to their culture, too, and their own entertainment industry. And their own show-biz scandals. The Los Angeles Times reported this summer that Paul Crouch, the evangelist who founded the largest Christian network, Trinity Broadcasting Network, vehemently denied a former employee’s accusation that the two had had a homosexual encounter – though not before paying the employee a $425,000 settlement. Not so incidentally, Trinity joined Gary Bauer and Fox News as prime movers in "Redeem the Vote," the Christian-rock alternative to MTV’s "Rock the Vote." But the distance between this hard-core red culture and the majority blue culture is perhaps best captured by Tom Coburn, the newly elected Republican senator from Oklahoma, lately famous for discovering "rampant" lesbianism in that state’s schools. As a congressman in 1997, Mr. Coburn attacked NBC for encouraging "irresponsible sexual behavior" and taking "network TV to an all-time low with full frontal nudity, violence and profanity being shown in our homes." The broadcast that prompted his outrage on behalf of "parents and decent-minded individuals everywhere" was the network’s prime-time showing of Steven Spielberg’s "Schindler’s List." It’s in the G.O.P.’s interest to pander to this far-right constituency – votes are votes – but you can be certain that a party joined at the hip to much of corporate America, Mr. Murdoch included, will take no action to curtail the blue culture these voters deplore. As Marshall Wittman, an independent-minded former associate of both Ralph Reed and John McCain, wrote before the election, "The only things the religious conservatives get are largely symbolic votes on proposals guaranteed to fail, such as the gay marriage constitutional amendment." That amendment has never had a prayer of rounding up the two-thirds majority needed for passage and still doesn’t. Mr. Wittman echoes Thomas Frank, the author of "What’s the Matter With Kansas?," by common consent the year’s most prescient political book. "Values," Mr. Frank writes, "always take a backseat to the needs of money once the elections are won." Under this perennial "trick," as he calls it, Republican politicians promise to stop abortion and force the culture industry "to clean up its act" – until the votes are counted. Then they return to their higher priorities, like cutting capital gains and estate taxes. Mr. Murdoch and his fellow cultural barons – from Sumner Redstone, the Bush-endorsing C.E.O. of Viacom, to Richard Parsons, the Republican C.E.O. of Time Warner, to Jeffrey Immelt, the Bush-contributing C.E.O. of G.E. (NBC Universal) – are about to be rewarded not just with more tax breaks but also with deregulatory goodies increasing their power to market salacious entertainment. It’s they, not Susan Sarandon and Bruce Springsteen, who actually set the cultural agenda Gary Bauer and company say they despise. But it’s not only the G.O.P.’s fealty to its financial backers that is predictive of how little cultural bang the "values" voters will get for their Bush-Cheney votes. At 78 percent, the nonvalues voters have far more votes than they do, and both parties will cater to that overwhelming majority’s blue tastes first and last. Their mandate is clear: The same poll that clocked "moral values" partisans at 22 percent of the electorate found that nearly three times as many Americans approve of some form of legal status for gay couples, whether civil unions (35 percent) or marriage (27 percent). Do the math and you’ll find that the poll also shows that for all the G.O.P.’s efforts to court Jews, the total number of Jewish Republican voters in 2004, while up from 2000, was still some 200,000 less than the number of gay Republican voters. When Robert Novak writes after the election that "the anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, socially conservative agenda is ascendant, and the G.O.P. will not abandon it anytime soon," you have to wonder what drug he is on. The abandonment began at the convention. Sam Brownback, the Kansas senator who champions the religious right, was locked away in an off-camera rally across town from Madison Square Garden. Prime time was bestowed upon the three biggest stars in post-Bush Republican politics: Rudy Giuliani, John McCain and Arnold Schwarzenegger. All are supporters of gay rights and opponents of the same-sex marriage constitutional amendment. Only Mr. McCain calls himself pro-life, and he’s never made abortion a cause. None of the three support the Bush administration position on stem-cell research. When the No. 1 "moral values" movie star, Mel Gibson, condemned the Schwarzenegger-endorsed California ballot initiative expanding and financing stem-cell research, the governor and voters crushed him like a girlie-man. The measure carried by 59 percent, which is consistent with national polling on the issue. If the Republican party’s next round of leaders are all cool with blue culture, why should Democrats run after the red? Received Washington wisdom has it that the only Democrat who will ever be … read more »

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    What adulterous president got a blow job in our White House, again?  That was a "Blue State" electorate pResident, right?  Yeah … that’s what I thought.  And who lied about it under oath?  Yeah, that’s right … that’s what I thought.  And who pardoned convicted drug traffickers, drug dealers, money launderers, corrupt government officials, and Marc Rich (who went on to do other great things like Oil For Fraud) … yeah, that’s what I thought.  There the blue state’s versions of moral values in one package.     Go dry up, weak little troll.  You lost … get over it.  Move On, Org!  Go to Florida and get your depression therapy.  The first step to recovery is to admit you (as a group) have a problem …  Right now, you’re going through what is known as "deflection and self-justification"  Using other people’s problems and weaknesses in order to feel better about yourselves and justify your (as a group) moral values.     Deflect all you want.  Justify yourselves all you want.  It still doesn’t change your party’s core values and how far-off they are from the center of the rest of the country.     You should have learned by now via the election that trying to blame someone else doesn’t strengthen your party or make them a more viable option. Lostpup198 "We will all be better citizens when voting records of our Congressmen are followed as carefully as scores of pro-football games." — Lou Erickson

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>What adulterous president got a blow job >in our White House, again?  

You think there was only one? The Repair Guy http://repairguy1993.netfirms.com/

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Take it easy, Tony — your guy won, get used to it.        Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access              >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

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>Take it easy, Tony — your >guy won, get used to it.

Yeah … I knew that you couldn’t come back with anything substantive to answer me with.  Fucking yip-yips. Lostpup198 "We will all be better citizens when voting records of our Congressmen are followed as carefully as scores of pro-football games." — Lou Erickson

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>>What adulterous president got a blow job >in our White House, again?   >You think there was only one? >The Repair Guy

I’ve only seen proof of one. Lostpup198 "We will all be better citizens when voting records of our Congressmen are followed as carefully as scores of pro-football games." — Lou Erickson

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[more delusional nonsense] Hey, Bruce, haven’t you heard? YOU LOST!!! Freep

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Do you guys really think that’s a cogent response? "Hey – news flash: You lost"? I could show you an authentic photo of W serving sauteed babies to Osama bin Laden, and you’d just say "hey, get over it – you lost!" As if this election means we should stop fighting for what we believe?  Fat freakin’ chance. We’re not going to stop. Get over it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [more delusional nonsense] > Hey, Bruce, haven’t you heard? YOU LOST!!! > Freep

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Keep fighting. I approve. Keep the "vote for us, you stupid morons" act going, too. That way, we get to win in 06 and 08 as well. Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Do you guys really think that’s a cogent response? > "Hey – news flash: You lost"? > I could show you an authentic photo of W serving sauteed babies to Osama bin > Laden, and you’d just say "hey, get over it – you lost!" > As if this election means we should stop fighting for what we believe? Fat > freakin’ chance. > We’re not going to stop. > Get over it. > [more delusional nonsense] > Hey, Bruce, haven’t you heard? YOU LOST!!! > Freep

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"Fearless Freep" offered: > Keep fighting. I approve. Keep the "vote for us, you stupid morons" act > going, too. That way, we get to win in 06 and 08 as well.>

Freep nails it: "We hate all of you dumbass hick SOBs tyhat live between the Delawarer  River and the Sierra Nvadas, but vote Demo-Lib for higher taxes on rich bastards making more than $30k a year, an gutted antique military, public lands  confication so our radical green allies can go backpacking without you rabble botering them on your snowmobiles, trial lawyers getting fat off bullshit lawsuits (like our poster boy, John Edwards) and best yet, your choice of homos or lebians living in wedded bliss right next door!"

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: :     What adulterous president got a blow job in our White House, again?  That : was a "Blue State" electorate pResident, right?  Yeah … that’s what I : thought.  And who lied about it under oath?  Yeah, that’s right … that’s what : I thought.  And who pardoned convicted drug traffickers, drug dealers, money : launderers, corrupt government officials, and Marc Rich (who went on to do : other great things like Oil For Fraud) … yeah, that’s what I thought.  There : the blue state’s versions of moral values in one package.  Which is exactly why Clintons blowjob is always res-erected time and time again, to push such propaganda stereotype hype crap.  Close to half of the USA believes that  "moral values" go beyond just whether one is  sexually pristeen or not. These people have a wider definition that includes such things as sapping the resources of foreign countries whilst giving the native occupants litttle in return,  lying to the public about the reasons for a particular war, polluting the environment, doing next to nothing when it comes to steering our energy policies away from oil or nuclear, minority rights, selling weapons to the Iranians, sending our troops into battle for a bullshit war without properly designed humvees, spreading slander and malicious falsities about others, manipulating the populace through fearmongering and trumped up issues, ( the list goes on and on)  Moral values?  Faugh!!!!! :     Go dry up, weak little troll.  You lost … get over it.  Move On, Org!  Go : to Florida and get your depression therapy. Which in propagandist speak translates to ‘go away’ :  The first step to recovery is to : admit you (as a group) have a problem …  Right now, you’re going through what : is known as "deflection and self-justification"  Using other people’s problems : and weaknesses in order to feel better about yourselves and justify your (as a : group) moral values. You mean like taunting someone about their beloved sisters suicide? :     Deflect all you want.  Justify yourselves all you want. That’s about all the repugnicon propagandists ever do,,, deflect and justify. However, in the arena of moral values, their arguments are pretty thin IMHO  When one adds it all up, it pretty much boils down to one flimsy repugnicon propagandist overly hyped myth,,, *Democrats don’t believe in oppressing gays, so they’re morally depraved*  Absolutely brilliant!!!!  Let’s just see how long that one will fly,  especially now that it’s ben flagged. : It still doesn’t : change your party’s core values and how far-off they are from the center of the : rest of the country.  The rest of the country?  You’re making some pretty big assumptions about the values of all of the rest of the people that didn’t even vote,  aren’t you?  I guess it’s good that there are psychics sych as yourself that can know such things though eh?  Here’s an idear. Why even have elections when all we really need to do is have Tony use psychic divinition to determine the core values of America for us. typical  propandists trick,      accuse the adversary of your worst shortcoming.  It’s no secret that the Democratic party is the party of giving liberally.  Do you know what this means to give? And how do you deflect and justify not giving?  Turn the word liberal into a bad word?  bad bad liberals, they believe in society as a whole helping the less fortunate,,, how morally depraved they are!!! :     You should have learned by now via the election that trying to blame : someone else doesn’t strengthen your party or make them a more viable option.  Why not? It worked damn well for Rove and the repugnicon propagandists. Might that be what you’re really afraid of? Welcome to the top,, now there’s nowhere to go but down. : Lotsapoop198 : : "We will all be better citizens when voting records of our Congressmen are : followed as carefully as scores of pro-football games." : : — Lou Erickson :

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"Our job in the world is not to be loved, it is to be respected!"                       — Henry Kissenger

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>"Our job in the world is not to be loved, >it is to be respected!" >                      — Henry Kissenger

That’s pretty much the way it is. It’s also our job to not elect a flag burning $5 whore who’ll turn us into a nation of wimps, and pull us out of Iraq before our job is done there. Pete — How can you doubt thousands of years of superstition? –Grim

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>"Our job in the world is not to be loved, >it is to be respected!" >                      — Henry Kissenger > That’s pretty much the way it is. > It’s also our job to not elect a flag burning $5 whore who’ll turn us > into a nation of wimps, and pull us out of Iraq before our job is done > there. > Pete

Well put, Pete. Ed Cregger

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it’s our job not to elect an oil slut and his pimps and johns.

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Precisely, and that’s why we need to dump Bush, so the rest of the world respects us once more.

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Fuck Henry Kissmyassenger!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Our job in the world is not to be loved, > it is to be respected!" >                       — Henry Kissenger

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> Precisely, and that’s why we need to dump Bush, so the rest of the > world respects us once more.

What good is it to be "respected" and also hated? There is no need for us to be a frickin’ bully, but the morons who posted above you seem to confuse getting respect is by bullying. And our job is not to elect a frontman for a bunch of greedy bellicose pigs who hide behind a $5 flag made in slave labor China and need geography lessons so they won’t bomb the wrong country in their lust for the world’s oil supply while polluting OUR country with lies, toxic waste and wasted lives for their visions of granduer by cheating their way in boasting that God is on their side. Fuck ‘em! DEFEND AMERICA – DEFEAT BUSH!

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> "Our job in the world is not to be loved, > it is to be respected!" >                      — Henry Kissenger

I dont know if respect is the first word that comes to mind for most non Americans when it comes to the USA. Doug

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> "Our job in the world is not to be loved, > it is to be respected!" >                      — Henry Kissenger > I dont know if respect is the first word that comes to mind for most non > Americans when it comes to the USA. > Doug

I think that the kind of respect that Henry was talking about was more akin to being scared or fearing us. I agree with him. If you don’t want our troops on your soil, don’t make the US think that you are a threat to our survival/way of life. It really is simple. Some folks have cultures that are built in such a way that it would be impossible for their citizens to respect us in other terms. I don’t think that we need to force people to like us. But we do need to make it clear that we are no one to be trifled with. Stick around. You ain’t seen nuttin’ yet. Ed Cregger

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> "Our job in the world is not to be loved, >> it is to be respected!" >>                      — Henry Kissenger > I dont know if respect is the first word that comes to mind for most non > Americans when it comes to the USA. > Doug > I think that the kind of respect that Henry was talking about was more akin > to being scared or fearing us. I agree with him.

Being feared will never be the same as being respected;  demand respect with a big stick and there will always be someone looking for the bigger (or maybe better) stick to make you ‘respect’ them. > If you don’t want our troops on your soil, don’t make the US think that you > are a threat to our survival/way of life. It really is simple.

Isn’t that a little like the way the former Soviet Union thought as they were taking over most of Eastern Europe? And you know what eventually happened there. pinball man power glutton, vacuum inside his head forefinger on the button, is he blue or is he red?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> "Our job in the world is not to be loved, > >> it is to be respected!" > >>                      — Henry Kissenger > > I dont know if respect is the first word that comes to mind for most non > > Americans when it comes to the USA. > > Doug > I think that the kind of respect that Henry was talking about was more > akin > to being scared or fearing us. I agree with him. > Being feared will never be the same as being respected;  demand respect with > a big stick and there will always be someone looking for the bigger (or > maybe better) stick to make you ‘respect’ them. > If you don’t want our troops on your soil, don’t make the US think that > you > are a threat to our survival/way of life. It really is simple. > Isn’t that a little like the way the former Soviet Union thought as they > were taking over most of Eastern Europe? > And you know what eventually happened there.

Yeah, I do. We kicked their ass.  We’ll kick Islamo-Fascism’s ass, too, and any other ass that needs kicking. Lord Valve American

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> it’s our job not to elect an oil slut and his pimps and johns.

As in the two lefty John’s that need Flushing because they are so full of shit. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Precisely, and that’s why we need to dump Bush, so the rest of the > world respects us once more. > What good is it to be "respected" and also hated? > There is no need for us to be a frickin’ bully, > but the morons who posted above you seem > to confuse getting respect is by bullying. > And our job is not to elect a frontman for a bunch of > greedy bellicose pigs who hide behind a $5 flag made > in slave labor China and need geography lessons so > they won’t bomb the wrong country in their lust > for the world’s oil supply while polluting OUR > country with lies, toxic waste and wasted lives > for their visions of granduer by cheating their > way in boasting that God is on their side. Fuck ‘em! > DEFEND AMERICA – DEFEAT BUSH!

DEFEND AMERICA – DEFEAT *TERRORISM*, Bush kicks ass!!!!! Kerry is a Flake!!!!! He changes his mind with the wind!!!!! LOL, the freaking guy bashes Bush, more than he bashes those terrorists. Like those who killed those mothers and their children in that Russian school. Where was his Big Freaking Mouth then. <thinking> Besides, Bill and Hill were behind the Rather thing anyway. Kerry has to fall, so Hill can get in. Bill has his eyes on the UN. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

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> "Our job in the world is not to be loved, > it is to be respected!" >                      — Henry Kissenger > I dont know if respect is the first word that comes to mind for most non > Americans when it comes to the USA. > Doug

That’s because you haven’t traveled to far and distant lands and spoken to the people there…. gtski

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> "Our job in the world is not to be loved, > >> it is to be respected!" > >>                      — Henry Kissenger > > I dont know if respect is the first word that comes to mind for most > > non > > Americans when it comes to the USA. > > Doug > I think that the kind of respect that Henry was talking about was more > akin > to being scared or fearing us. I agree with him. > Being feared will never be the same as being respected;  demand respect > with > a big stick and there will always be someone looking for the bigger (or > maybe better) stick to make you ‘respect’ them.

There will be anyway. That is human nature. Predator or prey. Those are the two choices that nature gives you. Anything else is bullshit philosophy that leads to death camps such as Aushwitz. > If you don’t want our troops on your soil, don’t make the US think that > you > are a threat to our survival/way of life. It really is simple. > Isn’t that a little like the way the former Soviet Union thought as they > were taking over most of Eastern Europe?

I would not mind seeing the West declaring the world’s oil supply too important to be subjected to the vagaries of alleged Saudi royalty or militant Islam and then occupy and shield those sites from sabotage. Why do you think we are in Iraq? It is a foothold toward protecting the oil supply. We are not their to steal their oil or their land, but to protect the distribution system from harm. A few alleged "royal" folks have their fingers firmly wrapped around our private parts. Who do you think started this depression? (It is just barely getting started)Look back to when the Saudis raised the price of oil and tripped the markets into sell-offs during the Clinton administration. This is a matter of recorded history. I’m not making this up. Look back even further and see that every other "recession" we have experienced since 1972 has been caused by these folks having a temper tantrum. It is time they were replaced with a Western friendly regime. One must care for oneself. No one else will and relying on others good intentions is idiotic. We have warned them repeatedly about financing and supporting terrorism and madrasas that preach hatred toward the West. Those warnings went unheeded. Now it is time to pay the piper. So, if we look out for ourselves, we will disintegrate like the Soviets? I don’t think so. The Soviets were defeated by their own ideology. Communism removes the incentive to work. It is a wonder that they lasted as long as they did. But you know this. We need to get hydrogen going big time and decouple ourselves from the Middle East. By not buying their oil, we also deprive them of the capital that is necessary to wage Jihad. However,, replacing petroleum with hydrogen will take time and lots of capital, all at a time when our economy is on the skids with no recovery in sight. Yes, I know, hydrogen is a transfer medium and not an energy source. But we have nearly unlimited wind power available in the midwest for producing enough clean power to liberate hydrogen and oxygen from water to fuel all of our vehicles at an acceptable cost. Even our current IC engines can be converted to burn hydrogen. We do not need to wait for fuel cell technology at all. I would much prefer that no one is ever killed in war. However, refusing to take care of your own interests will guarantee that you and your loved ones will at least suffer greatly, if not be killed. If someone has to suffer or die, I would much rather it be "them". In a perfect world, we would all take care of each other. We have a long, long way to go before something like that is possible – if ever. Ed Cregger

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Oh boy, please give me a link to the conspiracy theory to which you spubscribe. There are a number of variation on the ONe World Theme. Which one is yours?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > "Our job in the world is not to be loved, > > it is to be respected!" > >                      — Henry Kissenger > I dont know if respect is the first word that comes to mind for most > non > Americans when it comes to the USA. > Doug > That’s because you haven’t traveled to far and distant lands and > spoken to the people there…. > gtski

Well, I have.  MOST people are pretty good at distinguishing my views from those of the administration.  But I remember being in Ireland in late September 2001, where an old man kept telling me "God love you!  My whole country is behind you."  I’ve been back since, and I got none of that support.  I heard a wide variety of political voices in Morocco, but none of them seemed respectful of the U.S. Our country needs military strength – I fully believe that.  But respect has to be more than fear, because people will lash out at fear.  Israel is much stronger than Palestine, and is certainly feared there, but that doesn’t stop the terrorist attacks.  The conservatives hope (or at least claim to hope) that the pot-of-gold dream of capitalism will be enough to win people’s respect.  (And, faults and all, maybe it should.)  But it’s pretty hard for people to appreciate that when they’re scared shitless.

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http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/ short version: The problem with making sausage the President’s way-other than the fact that it deceives the public, precludes a serious debate, bitterly divides the body politic when war requires unity, exposes American soldiers to greater risk, substitutes half measures for thoroughgoing efforts, and insures that no one will be held accountable for mistakes that will never be corrected-is that it doesn’t work. What determines success in this war is what happens in Iraq and how Iraqis perceive it. If U.S.A.I.D. releases a report that prettifies the truth, officials here might breathe easier for a while, but it won’t speed up the reconstruction of Iraq. Covering up failures only widens the gap in perception between Washington and Baghdad-which, in turn, makes Washington less capable of grasping the reality of Iraq and responding to it. Eventually, the failures announce themselves anyway-in a series of suicide bombings, a slow attrition of Iraqi confidence, a sudden insurrection. War, unlike budget forecasts and campaign coverage, is quite merciless with falsehood. In refusing to look at Iraq honestly, President Bush has made defeat there more likely. This failing is only the most important repetition of a recurring theme in the war against radical Islam: the distance between Bush’s soaring, often inspiring language and the insufficiency of his actions. When he speaks, as he did at the Republican Convention, about the power of freedom to change the world, he is sounding deep notes in the American political psyche. His opponent comes nowhere close to making such music. But if Iraq looks nothing like the President’s vision-if Iraq is visibly deteriorating, and no one in authority will admit it-the speeches can produce only illusion or cynicism. In what may be an extended case of overcompensation, so much of the President’s conduct in the war has become an assertion of personal will. Bush’s wartime hero, Winston Churchill, offered his countrymen nothing but blood, toil, tears, and sweat. Bush offers optimistic forecasts, permanent tax cuts, and his own stirring resolve.

Response:

The liberals in their lust for power have given the enemy the spirit to fight on. Teddy, Tom, Johnny, and the rest of them by telling the world that we are wrong and the world were lied to and the way the are bitching about it have given the enemy comfort, aide, and more importantly almost a self fullfilling prophacy about iraq trying to be another Viet-Nam. The liberals are sure trying. But we won’t let them. Regards, Spike <doesn’t have an original though snip> >http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/ >short version:

<snip>

Response:

http://www.whodies.com/dies.html http://www.whodies.com/lies_threat.html Who dies for Bush Lies?

Response:

The Bush administration, in their lust for power have been powerful warriors in the fight against freedom. W, Rummy, Ashcroft and the rest of them, by telling the world that we are wrong to question our government,  and more importantly, by attacking anyone except our most dangerous enemies, have created a self-fulfilling prophecy of a terrorist threat in Iraq. The neo-cons are sure trying. But we won’t let them.

Response:

> Thanks for letting us know how she is doing.  Sometimes it can take a while > for meds to kick in, and sometimes it takes some time to discover the right > dosage/type of medication.  It’s important to be "assertive" with doctors, > especially when a person is starting on a med regime.   If she starts having > problems again, she can always go back for more "adjustment".  I’m glad she > has a supportive, patient partner.  It can make all the difference for > "mentally" ill people.  :-)

Second that! My first experience with an antidepressant was dreadful, totally the wrong medication for me. The next one worked much better, and once it had time to kick in and we found the proper dosage, things improved dramatically.

Response:

Thanks for letting us know how she is doing.  Sometimes it can take a while for meds to kick in, and sometimes it takes some time to discover the right dosage/type of medication.  It’s important to be "assertive" with doctors, especially when a person is starting on a med regime.   If she starts having problems again, she can always go back for more "adjustment".  I’m glad she has a supportive, patient partner.  It can make all the difference for "mentally" ill people.  :-) Diane M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice. I didn’t tell her to > smoke again. I encouraged her to go back to the doctor and she did. > Actually, she had seen a psychiatrist and been given some medication, > but it  didn’t seem to help at all… If anything it made things > worse. When she went back a couple of days ago, the doctor adjusted > the dosage (doubled it). I’m happy to say she seems to be doing much > much better, just about 100% normal in fact. > If anyone else has similar situation and reads this, I really strongly > suggest seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist. don’t just think its > the lack of smoking that’s causing your problems, you may well be > suffering from chronic depression or something like my girlfriend, and > the medication really works. > Anyway, thanks again.

Response:

Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice. I didn’t tell her to smoke again. I encouraged her to go back to the doctor and she did. Actually, she had seen a psychiatrist and been given some medication, but it  didn’t seem to help at all… If anything it made things worse. When she went back a couple of days ago, the doctor adjusted the dosage (doubled it). I’m happy to say she seems to be doing much much better, just about 100% normal in fact. If anyone else has similar situation and reads this, I really strongly suggest seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist. don’t just think its the lack of smoking that’s causing your problems, you may well be suffering from chronic depression or something like my girlfriend, and the medication really works. Anyway, thanks again.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice. I didn’t tell her to > smoke again. I encouraged her to go back to the doctor and she did. > Actually, she had seen a psychiatrist and been given some medication, > but it  didn’t seem to help at all… If anything it made things > worse. When she went back a couple of days ago, the doctor adjusted > the dosage (doubled it). I’m happy to say she seems to be doing much > much better, just about 100% normal in fact. > If anyone else has similar situation and reads this, I really strongly > suggest seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist. don’t just think its > the lack of smoking that’s causing your problems, you may well be > suffering from chronic depression or something like my girlfriend, and > the medication really works. > Anyway, thanks again.

Good to hear Adam – thanks for coming back and letting us know. It sounds like your girlfriend has a very caring boyfriend – lovely to see! So glad she is doing so much better…and still quit! Paula

Response:

> My girlfriend quit smoking almost 6 months ago and is still having a > terrible time. She feels despair and anxiety 24/7. I have never smoked > and am afraid I don’t relate very well, as much as I try. She says its > getting worse all the time, and I can’t tell her when it’s going to > get better, only that it will get better.

You’ve already gotten some very good advice with regard to your girlfriend seeing a mental health professional. One thing I’d like to add is she should understand needing help with a broken brain is no different than needing help for a broken leg. The proper treatment can work wonders. Most depression is very treatable, and if she needs medication, the proper kind will help enormously. It  really will get better. No one should suffer dispair and anxiety like this needlessly. One other thing, if she can hang on to her quit, it will be something that can provide comfort and a feeling of success in the future and may really help with her recovery.

Response:

Adam,    I have no medical credentials but can give you some info from my experience.  By 6 months this is no longer withdrawal from nicotine addiction.  The nicotine is mostly gone from you system the first 3 days and the physical addiction only last another day or two.   By 6 months she should have changed enough of those daily habits from smoking related to non smoking related that things really are getting easier.  What could this be I cannot be sure.   I do have a suggestion though.  One thing nicotine does is hide your emotions.  When all those strong emotions come to the surface it does take some folks a good bit of time to learn to deal with them.  This is especially true for very long term smokers.  That may be part of the issues and maybe there are some issues that should have been dealt with medically years ago.     With that said my best suggestion is to have a medical examination for any physical issues and maybe a psychological examination for an emotional issues. Only trained medical professionals can tell for sure if that is the problem and what should be done about it.  At this point thats the best advice I can give to you. Ian OOF — 8y 8m 4w 1d 16:03 smoke-free, 108,580 cigs not smoked, $13,398.77 saved, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >My girlfriend quit smoking almost 6 months ago and is still having a >terrible time. She feels despair and anxiety 24/7. I have never smoked >and am afraid I don’t relate very well, as much as I try. She says its >getting worse all the time, and I can’t tell her when it’s going to >get better, only that it will get better. >She says she wants to die, that she feels so bad she could take her >life. I don’t know if its the addiction talking or if she is really >suicidal, but I’m very worried. We have a long distance relationship, >so I can’t watch her or help in any way physically. Should I just tell >her to go ahead and smoke again?

Response:

>My girlfriend quit smoking almost 6 months ago and is still having a >terrible time. She feels despair and anxiety 24/7. I have never smoked >and am afraid I don’t relate very well, as much as I try. She says its >getting worse all the time, and I can’t tell her when it’s going to >get better, only that it will get better.

It should have begun to get better by now, IMHO (although everyone is different, of course).  It does sound as though she has more problems than just her addiction to smoking. >She says she wants to die, that she feels so bad she could take her >life. I don’t know if its the addiction talking or if she is really >suicidal, but I’m very worried. We have a long distance relationship, >so I can’t watch her or help in any way physically. Should I just tell >her to go ahead and smoke again?

Please try to get her to see a doctor ASAP.  He will be able to help her deal with her depression.  If there is anyone nearby whom you can contact and you trust, see if you can get them to visit her and make sure she is OK for the moment. I don’t believe smoking is going to solve her problem – and if she has stuck it out this long, neither does she. Lemming — Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger’s cat. http://goldcrossdata.co.uk/                      ICQ: 8647501

Response:

A lot of people have mood problems right after they quit, but most get better after a few months.  A very small percentage of people who quit smoking find that they were using smoking to cover up mental disorders. Quitting can bring those disorders to light, and in some instances, make them worse.  Unfortuneately, starting smoking again doesn’t necessarily cure the disorder or take the person back to where they were when they smoked. It sounds as if your girlfriend needs to be evaluated by a psychiatric professional.  Soon.  Not a general practitioner – a psychiatrist.  Wanting to die is a very bad sign, but talk of taking her own life should never be ignored or dismissed as "not serious".  If the choice is between dying and smoking, I am a firm believer that smoking is a better option – but there are MUCH better options for treating depression than smoking.  Have her get to someone who can help her find them.  Now.  It will get better, but she may need some help, at least short term, to make it get better.  Good Luck. Diane M. … who was there

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My girlfriend quit smoking almost 6 months ago and is still having a > terrible time. She feels despair and anxiety 24/7. I have never smoked > and am afraid I don’t relate very well, as much as I try. She says its > getting worse all the time, and I can’t tell her when it’s going to > get better, only that it will get better. > She says she wants to die, that she feels so bad she could take her > life. I don’t know if its the addiction talking or if she is really > suicidal, but I’m very worried. We have a long distance relationship, > so I can’t watch her or help in any way physically. Should I just tell > her to go ahead and smoke again?

Response:

Hi Adam, *please* don’t tell your girlfriend to start smoking again. I’ve been in a similar situation and, in my opinion, I don’t think it’s quitting smoking that’s bothering her but she’s blaming it on that so she can go back to it to stuff away what is really at the root of her despair and anxiety. I would encourage her to talk to her doctor, explain that she’s quit and for how long. If she doesn’t feel comfortable talking to him/her then she needs to find a professional she is comfortable talking to. If she’s got to six months without smoking then deep down she doesn’t really want to start again, she wouldn’t continue to put herself though this suffering if she really thought smoking would make her feel better. hope this helps hugs padders (

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Almost everybody gets a guy with a stick to help decide.  Since there is > almost no rational basis for locating a well, this will help you too. > Almost all well-drillers will haul out a forked stick at the drop of a hat, > so this should work out fine.  I gather that if you have a shallow well now > and others in your area have shallow wells.  Shallow wells are not very > costly, so let whoever is doing it choose a spot. > One thought that has occured to me is that if everybody in your area is on > wells, and various folks water lawns, the result could be that the ground > water table is dropping.  Whether your new well will affect your old well is > hard to guess.  But probably not. > Yes I agree with everything you’ve said, especially about the closet, what > a > pain! > So I guess I’ve resorted to doing another point just for the sprinklers. > How far from the existing point should I be? > > > Thanks for the input.  However I must disagree on your statement that > > most > > > people with wells don’t water their lawns.  I live in a development > > where > > > everyone is on a well, and I’d say most have lawn sprinklers. Maybe > > this > > > will be a good way to meet the neighbors. > > > Thanks again, > > > Jeff > > > > Wells aren’t that cooperative.  You may or may not be able to get > > enough > > > > water to water your lawn, but you should definitely drive a separate > > well > > > > for the purpose.  If it comes in with enough water, great. The main > > thing > > > > is to have enough water for your house and not screw up the well you > > have. > > > > The pump size is mostly dictated by the well depth.  A .5hp pump is > > more > > > > than enough to water your lawn; it can deliver 12 gpm from a shallow > > well, > > > > if the well has 12 gpm available. > > > > Most people with wells don’t water their lawns. > > > > > Hi, > > > > > This wonderful new money trap we bought has a problem with the > > water > > > well. > > > > > I’m not real sure of the terminology  but here goes, I have a > > driven > > > well > > > > > point that is supposedly only 21 feet deep.  The pump is in a > > closet in > > > > the > > > > > basement.  It has two plastic, 1 inch I think, pipes coming out of > > it, > > > > going > > > > > into the floor.  There is an expansion tank that I cannot see. > > (It is > > > > > behind the closet wall) > > > > > We have more than enough water for household tasks, laundry, > > dishwasher, > > > > > showers, etc.  However when I try to run the lawn sprinkler system > > I > > > have > > > > > problems.  I can run one zone for about 5 minutes, after that the > > pump > > > > > starts "chugging".  The sprinkler output drops way down and I can > > hear > > > the > > > > > pump sucking water from the upstairs toilet and hose spigots.  I > > can’t > > > > stand > > > > > the noise from the pump so I shut the system off.  Needless to say > > my > > > lawn > > > > > has almost completely burnt up. > > > > > The interesting thing is that the system must have worked for the > > > previous > > > > > owner, because last fall when we looked at the house the lawn was > > > > gorgeous. > > > > > Any suggestions?  I’ve thought of driving another point with a > > separate > > > > pump > > > > > for just the sprinklers but I’m not sure what size pump and how > > far from > > > > the > > > > > existing point should I be. > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Jeff > > The well owner that successfully waters their lawn on and ongoing basis > > has a number of things going in their favor. First is the well has been > > done with that water use in mind. Second, the pump has been sized > > correctly for the well, the house water needs and the irrigation > > requirements. Third, they usually water after other water needs have > > been met; like overnight etc.. Miss getting any one of those right and > > you should stop trying to water the lawn or you may end up with no water > > to use anywhere. Or the water will go dirty etc. and you won’t want to > > use it in the house. Or you burn up a pump. > > Anything that has a change in the sound it produces when operating needs > > to be serviced or otherwise looked at now; especially a well water pump. > > Waiting usually makes things much worse while drastically shortening the > > time available to fix it. That usually increases the cost and/or chances > > of screwing up the fix. > > Anyone putting a well pump and pressure tank in a tight closet should be > > shot. At least twice! > > The tank has to be checked for proper air pressure, the (compressed) air > > is actually the power used to move water when the pump isn’t running. > > Proper air pressure is 2 psi less air than the cut-in pressure switch > > setting; I.E. 30/50 water pressure gets 28 psi air pressure when there > > is no water in the tank. If this doesn’t solve some of the problems, > > then you look at the condition of the pump and how much water is in the > > well and the recovery rate of the well. And that’s the proper > > troubleshooting order. > > Gary > > Quality Water Associates

If the new well is in the recharge area of the old one, both will be effected by pumping the other. The effect of that will/can be an increased cone of depression with the deepest part between the two wells. That can limit the output of both and increase the recovery time of both. Gary Quality Water Associates

Response:

Almost everybody gets a guy with a stick to help decide.  Since there is almost no rational basis for locating a well, this will help you too. Almost all well-drillers will haul out a forked stick at the drop of a hat, so this should work out fine.  I gather that if you have a shallow well now and others in your area have shallow wells.  Shallow wells are not very costly, so let whoever is doing it choose a spot. One thought that has occured to me is that if everybody in your area is on wells, and various folks water lawns, the result could be that the ground water table is dropping.  Whether your new well will affect your old well is hard to guess.  But probably not.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yes I agree with everything you’ve said, especially about the closet, what a > pain! > So I guess I’ve resorted to doing another point just for the sprinklers. > How far from the existing point should I be? > > Thanks for the input.  However I must disagree on your statement that > most > > people with wells don’t water their lawns.  I live in a development > where > > everyone is on a well, and I’d say most have lawn sprinklers.  Maybe > this > > will be a good way to meet the neighbors. > > Thanks again, > > Jeff > > > Wells aren’t that cooperative.  You may or may not be able to get > enough > > > water to water your lawn, but you should definitely drive a separate > well > > > for the purpose.  If it comes in with enough water, great.  The main > thing > > > is to have enough water for your house and not screw up the well you > have. > > > The pump size is mostly dictated by the well depth.  A .5hp pump is > more > > > than enough to water your lawn; it can deliver 12 gpm from a shallow > well, > > > if the well has 12 gpm available. > > > Most people with wells don’t water their lawns. > > > > Hi, > > > > This wonderful new money trap we bought has a problem with the > water > > well. > > > > I’m not real sure of the terminology  but here goes, I have a > driven > > well > > > > point that is supposedly only 21 feet deep.  The pump is in a > closet in > > > the > > > > basement.  It has two plastic, 1 inch I think, pipes coming out of > it, > > > going > > > > into the floor.  There is an expansion tank that I cannot see. > (It is > > > > behind the closet wall) > > > > We have more than enough water for household tasks, laundry, > dishwasher, > > > > showers, etc.  However when I try to run the lawn sprinkler system > I > > have > > > > problems.  I can run one zone for about 5 minutes, after that the > pump > > > > starts "chugging".  The sprinkler output drops way down and I can > hear > > the > > > > pump sucking water from the upstairs toilet and hose spigots.  I > can’t > > > stand > > > > the noise from the pump so I shut the system off.  Needless to say > my > > lawn > > > > has almost completely burnt up. > > > > The interesting thing is that the system must have worked for the > > previous > > > > owner, because last fall when we looked at the house the lawn was > > > gorgeous. > > > > Any suggestions?  I’ve thought of driving another point with a > separate > > > pump > > > > for just the sprinklers but I’m not sure what size pump and how > far from > > > the > > > > existing point should I be. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jeff > The well owner that successfully waters their lawn on and ongoing basis > has a number of things going in their favor. First is the well has been > done with that water use in mind. Second, the pump has been sized > correctly for the well, the house water needs and the irrigation > requirements. Third, they usually water after other water needs have > been met; like overnight etc.. Miss getting any one of those right and > you should stop trying to water the lawn or you may end up with no water > to use anywhere. Or the water will go dirty etc. and you won’t want to > use it in the house. Or you burn up a pump. > Anything that has a change in the sound it produces when operating needs > to be serviced or otherwise looked at now; especially a well water pump. > Waiting usually makes things much worse while drastically shortening the > time available to fix it. That usually increases the cost and/or chances > of screwing up the fix. > Anyone putting a well pump and pressure tank in a tight closet should be > shot. At least twice! > The tank has to be checked for proper air pressure, the (compressed) air > is actually the power used to move water when the pump isn’t running. > Proper air pressure is 2 psi less air than the cut-in pressure switch > setting; I.E. 30/50 water pressure gets 28 psi air pressure when there > is no water in the tank. If this doesn’t solve some of the problems, > then you look at the condition of the pump and how much water is in the > well and the recovery rate of the well. And that’s the proper > troubleshooting order. > Gary > Quality Water Associates

Response:

Yes I agree with everything you’ve said, especially about the closet, what a pain! So I guess I’ve resorted to doing another point just for the sprinklers. How far from the existing point should I be?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for the input.  However I must disagree on your statement that > most > people with wells don’t water their lawns.  I live in a development > where > everyone is on a well, and I’d say most have lawn sprinklers.  Maybe > this > will be a good way to meet the neighbors. > Thanks again, > Jeff > > Wells aren’t that cooperative.  You may or may not be able to get > enough > > water to water your lawn, but you should definitely drive a separate > well > > for the purpose.  If it comes in with enough water, great.  The main > thing > > is to have enough water for your house and not screw up the well you > have. > > The pump size is mostly dictated by the well depth.  A .5hp pump is > more > > than enough to water your lawn; it can deliver 12 gpm from a shallow > well, > > if the well has 12 gpm available. > > Most people with wells don’t water their lawns. > > > Hi, > > > This wonderful new money trap we bought has a problem with the > water > well. > > > I’m not real sure of the terminology  but here goes, I have a > driven > well > > > point that is supposedly only 21 feet deep.  The pump is in a > closet in > > the > > > basement.  It has two plastic, 1 inch I think, pipes coming out of > it, > > going > > > into the floor.  There is an expansion tank that I cannot see. > (It is > > > behind the closet wall) > > > We have more than enough water for household tasks, laundry, > dishwasher, > > > showers, etc.  However when I try to run the lawn sprinkler system > I > have > > > problems.  I can run one zone for about 5 minutes, after that the > pump > > > starts "chugging".  The sprinkler output drops way down and I can > hear > the > > > pump sucking water from the upstairs toilet and hose spigots.  I > can’t > > stand > > > the noise from the pump so I shut the system off.  Needless to say > my > lawn > > > has almost completely burnt up. > > > The interesting thing is that the system must have worked for the > previous > > > owner, because last fall when we looked at the house the lawn was > > gorgeous. > > > Any suggestions?  I’ve thought of driving another point with a > separate > > pump > > > for just the sprinklers but I’m not sure what size pump and how > far from > > the > > > existing point should I be. > > > Thanks, > > > Jeff > The well owner that successfully waters their lawn on and ongoing basis > has a number of things going in their favor. First is the well has been > done with that water use in mind. Second, the pump has been sized > correctly for the well, the house water needs and the irrigation > requirements. Third, they usually water after other water needs have > been met; like overnight etc.. Miss getting any one of those right and > you should stop trying to water the lawn or you may end up with no water > to use anywhere. Or the water will go dirty etc. and you won’t want to > use it in the house. Or you burn up a pump. > Anything that has a change in the sound it produces when operating needs > to be serviced or otherwise looked at now; especially a well water pump. > Waiting usually makes things much worse while drastically shortening the > time available to fix it. That usually increases the cost and/or chances > of screwing up the fix. > Anyone putting a well pump and pressure tank in a tight closet should be > shot. At least twice! > The tank has to be checked for proper air pressure, the (compressed) air > is actually the power used to move water when the pump isn’t running. > Proper air pressure is 2 psi less air than the cut-in pressure switch > setting; I.E. 30/50 water pressure gets 28 psi air pressure when there > is no water in the tank. If this doesn’t solve some of the problems, > then you look at the condition of the pump and how much water is in the > well and the recovery rate of the well. And that’s the proper > troubleshooting order. > Gary > Quality Water Associates

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for the input.  However I must disagree on your statement that most > people with wells don’t water their lawns.  I live in a development where > everyone is on a well, and I’d say most have lawn sprinklers.  Maybe this > will be a good way to meet the neighbors. > Thanks again, > Jeff > Wells aren’t that cooperative.  You may or may not be able to get enough > water to water your lawn, but you should definitely drive a separate well > for the purpose.  If it comes in with enough water, great.  The main thing > is to have enough water for your house and not screw up the well you have. > The pump size is mostly dictated by the well depth.  A .5hp pump is more > than enough to water your lawn; it can deliver 12 gpm from a shallow well, > if the well has 12 gpm available. > Most people with wells don’t water their lawns. > > Hi, > > This wonderful new money trap we bought has a problem with the water > well. > > I’m not real sure of the terminology  but here goes, I have a driven > well > > point that is supposedly only 21 feet deep.  The pump is in a closet in > the > > basement.  It has two plastic, 1 inch I think, pipes coming out of it, > going > > into the floor.  There is an expansion tank that I cannot see. (It is > > behind the closet wall) > > We have more than enough water for household tasks, laundry, dishwasher, > > showers, etc.  However when I try to run the lawn sprinkler system I > have > > problems.  I can run one zone for about 5 minutes, after that the pump > > starts "chugging".  The sprinkler output drops way down and I can hear > the > > pump sucking water from the upstairs toilet and hose spigots.  I can’t > stand > > the noise from the pump so I shut the system off.  Needless to say my > lawn > > has almost completely burnt up. > > The interesting thing is that the system must have worked for the > previous > > owner, because last fall when we looked at the house the lawn was > gorgeous. > > Any suggestions?  I’ve thought of driving another point with a separate > pump > > for just the sprinklers but I’m not sure what size pump and how far from > the > > existing point should I be. > > Thanks, > > Jeff

The well owner that successfully waters their lawn on and ongoing basis has a number of things going in their favor. First is the well has been done with that water use in mind. Second, the pump has been sized correctly for the well, the house water needs and the irrigation requirements. Third, they usually water after other water needs have been met; like overnight etc.. Miss getting any one of those right and you should stop trying to water the lawn or you may end up with no water to use anywhere. Or the water will go dirty etc. and you won’t want to use it in the house. Or you burn up a pump. Anything that has a change in the sound it produces when operating needs to be serviced or otherwise looked at now; especially a well water pump. Waiting usually makes things much worse while drastically shortening the time available to fix it. That usually increases the cost and/or chances of screwing up the fix. Anyone putting a well pump and pressure tank in a tight closet should be shot. At least twice! The tank has to be checked for proper air pressure, the (compressed) air is actually the power used to move water when the pump isn’t running. Proper air pressure is 2 psi less air than the cut-in pressure switch setting; I.E. 30/50 water pressure gets 28 psi air pressure when there is no water in the tank. If this doesn’t solve some of the problems, then you look at the condition of the pump and how much water is in the well and the recovery rate of the well. And that’s the proper troubleshooting order. Gary Quality Water Associates

Response:

Thanks for the input.  However I must disagree on your statement that most people with wells don’t water their lawns.  I live in a development where everyone is on a well, and I’d say most have lawn sprinklers.  Maybe this will be a good way to meet the neighbors. Thanks again, Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Wells aren’t that cooperative.  You may or may not be able to get enough > water to water your lawn, but you should definitely drive a separate well > for the purpose.  If it comes in with enough water, great.  The main thing > is to have enough water for your house and not screw up the well you have. > The pump size is mostly dictated by the well depth.  A .5hp pump is more > than enough to water your lawn; it can deliver 12 gpm from a shallow well, > if the well has 12 gpm available. > Most people with wells don’t water their lawns. > Hi, > This wonderful new money trap we bought has a problem with the water well. > I’m not real sure of the terminology  but here goes, I have a driven well > point that is supposedly only 21 feet deep.  The pump is in a closet in > the > basement.  It has two plastic, 1 inch I think, pipes coming out of it, > going > into the floor.  There is an expansion tank that I cannot see.  (It is > behind the closet wall) > We have more than enough water for household tasks, laundry, dishwasher, > showers, etc.  However when I try to run the lawn sprinkler system I have > problems.  I can run one zone for about 5 minutes, after that the pump > starts "chugging".  The sprinkler output drops way down and I can hear the > pump sucking water from the upstairs toilet and hose spigots.  I can’t > stand > the noise from the pump so I shut the system off.  Needless to say my lawn > has almost completely burnt up. > The interesting thing is that the system must have worked for the previous > owner, because last fall when we looked at the house the lawn was > gorgeous. > Any suggestions?  I’ve thought of driving another point with a separate > pump > for just the sprinklers but I’m not sure what size pump and how far from > the > existing point should I be. > Thanks, > Jeff

Response:

Wells aren’t that cooperative.  You may or may not be able to get enough water to water your lawn, but you should definitely drive a separate well for the purpose.  If it comes in with enough water, great.  The main thing is to have enough water for your house and not screw up the well you have. The pump size is mostly dictated by the well depth.  A .5hp pump is more than enough to water your lawn; it can deliver 12 gpm from a shallow well, if the well has 12 gpm available. Most people with wells don’t water their lawns.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > This wonderful new money trap we bought has a problem with the water well. > I’m not real sure of the terminology  but here goes, I have a driven well > point that is supposedly only 21 feet deep.  The pump is in a closet in the > basement.  It has two plastic, 1 inch I think, pipes coming out of it, going > into the floor.  There is an expansion tank that I cannot see.  (It is > behind the closet wall) > We have more than enough water for household tasks, laundry, dishwasher, > showers, etc.  However when I try to run the lawn sprinkler system I have > problems.  I can run one zone for about 5 minutes, after that the pump > starts "chugging".  The sprinkler output drops way down and I can hear the > pump sucking water from the upstairs toilet and hose spigots.  I can’t stand > the noise from the pump so I shut the system off.  Needless to say my lawn > has almost completely burnt up. > The interesting thing is that the system must have worked for the previous > owner, because last fall when we looked at the house the lawn was gorgeous. > Any suggestions?  I’ve thought of driving another point with a separate pump > for just the sprinklers but I’m not sure what size pump and how far from the > existing point should I be. > Thanks, > Jeff

Response:

Hi, This wonderful new money trap we bought has a problem with the water well. I’m not real sure of the terminology  but here goes, I have a driven well point that is supposedly only 21 feet deep.  The pump is in a closet in the basement.  It has two plastic, 1 inch I think, pipes coming out of it, going into the floor.  There is an expansion tank that I cannot see.  (It is behind the closet wall) We have more than enough water for household tasks, laundry, dishwasher, showers, etc.  However when I try to run the lawn sprinkler system I have problems.  I can run one zone for about 5 minutes, after that the pump starts "chugging".  The sprinkler output drops way down and I can hear the pump sucking water from the upstairs toilet and hose spigots.  I can’t stand the noise from the pump so I shut the system off.  Needless to say my lawn has almost completely burnt up. The interesting thing is that the system must have worked for the previous owner, because last fall when we looked at the house the lawn was gorgeous. Any suggestions?  I’ve thought of driving another point with a separate pump for just the sprinklers but I’m not sure what size pump and how far from the existing point should I be. Thanks, Jeff

Response:

Because growth has been lacklustre since the US emerged from recession in 2001, the economy has failed to create jobs. On the contrary, under the so-called jobless recovery, more than two million jobs have disappeared since the president, George Bush, took office in January 2001. In fact, Mr Bush could be the first president since Herbert Hoover, who was in the White House from 1929 to 1933, the years of the Great Depression, to oversee a decline in total US jobs during his term. By contrast, 22 million jobs were created during the Clinton years. The persistence of sluggishness has surprised economists, and some believe that the job market will not have recovered by the end of 2004, when Mr Bush will have to fight for re-election. With the presidential elections looming next year, Democrats have focused on the economy as Mr Bush’s weak spot. Nancy Pelosi of California, the House Democratic leader, has described Mr. Bush’s economic record as "$3-trillion deeper in debt, three million fewer jobs." from the Guardian ANYONE BUT BUSH IN 2004

Response:

>Because growth has been lacklustre since the US emerged >from recession in 2001

The US entered a recession in March 2001 and hasn’t come out of it yet.

Response:

Right & the tax-cut plan he has is not going to stimulate the economy enough to create real, new jobs.  It’s that same old Regan strickle-down stuuff that never worked either. Plus, it’s going to bring those big, yearly deficits.  The whole thing is screwed. Nuke Bush. Mike

Response:

Can’t nuke him, he can’t even say the word.  He’s got teflon, too.  Maybe the dems will give us someone who’s electible.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Right & the tax-cut plan he has is not going to stimulate the economy > enough to create real, new jobs.  It’s that same old Regan > strickle-down stuuff that never worked either. > Plus, it’s going to bring those big, yearly deficits.  The whole thing > is screwed. > Nuke Bush. > Mike

Response:

> Right & the tax-cut plan he has is not going to stimulate the economy > enough to create real, new jobs.  It’s that same old Regan > strickle-down stuuff that never worked either.

Yep, I believe someone called it "Voodoo Economics". > Plus, it’s going to bring those big, yearly deficits.  The whole thing > is screwed. > Nuke Bush.

Flush the Bushit! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mike

Response:

> Can’t nuke him, he can’t even say the word.

Notice how he pronounces the word "terrorist" and makes it sound like it’s only one syllable? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->He’s got teflon, too.  Maybe > the dems will give us someone who’s electible. > Right & the tax-cut plan he has is not going to stimulate the economy > enough to create real, new jobs.  It’s that same old Regan > strickle-down stuuff that never worked either. > Plus, it’s going to bring those big, yearly deficits.  The whole thing > is screwed. > Nuke Bush. > Mike

Response:

> >Because growth has been lacklustre since the US emerged >from recession in 2001 > The US entered a recession in March 2001 and hasn’t come out of it yet.

You misspelled 1999.  HTH.

Response:

Not a chance, unless there is a revolution.    Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Can’t nuke him, he can’t even say the word.  He’s got teflon, too.  Maybe > the dems will give us someone who’s electible. > Right & the tax-cut plan he has is not going to stimulate the economy > enough to create real, new jobs.  It’s that same old Regan > strickle-down stuuff that never worked either. > Plus, it’s going to bring those big, yearly deficits.  The whole thing > is screwed. > Nuke Bush. > Mike

Response:

>>> Because growth has been lacklustre since the US emerged >> from recession in 2001 > The US entered a recession in March 2001 and hasn’t come out of it yet. > You misspelled 1999.  HTH.

Seemed to me like confidence in the the stock market started diving right when it looked like Bush was going to be elected. Zoid —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

> Right & the tax-cut plan he has is not going to stimulate the economy > enough to create real, new jobs.  It’s that same old Regan > strickle-down stuuff that never worked either. > Plus, it’s going to bring those big, yearly deficits.  The whole thing > is screwed.

Yeah but a whole lot more people will be able to afford those $2,000 Bush-Burgers Sheesh for that price you’d expect some good Texas BBQ

Response:

>> The US entered a recession in March 2001 and hasn’t come out of it yet. > You misspelled 1999.

Nope. March 2001. Right after the market realized that Bush was going to fuck things up.

Response:

> >> The US entered a recession in March 2001 and hasn’t come out of it yet. > You misspelled 1999. > Nope. March 2001. Right after the market realized that Bush was going to fuck > things up.

It tanked in the fall before the election – when people finally realized it would be either Bush OR Gore and either one of them would seriously mess things up…

Response:

>It tanked in the fall before the election

Sorry. The recession started in March 2001. Unless you dispute the normal economist’s definition of "recession."

Response:

>It tanked in the fall before the election > Sorry. The recession started in March 2001. Unless you dispute the normal > economist’s definition of "recession."

Ok…  I’ll bite…  economist’s defintition of "recession"… But once we are "IN" a reccession… it’s merely the result of previous economic activity…  eh..?? Do economists say we were in a good growth period and then BANG three months later it is a "recession"…???  Which would really mean that the "downturn" happened in ONE month… and after three… they declared it a recession…?? When did the stock market "peak"… and BEGIN it’s plunge..??? The market saw the "future" (so to speak), mulled it over for a period, and then reacted…  so the "market" actually begin to suspect the worst even as it was spiking… I’ve often wondered how much of the ’spike’ at the end was due to short-sales by those in the know, who were trying to go short JUST before the plunge….  they kept getting hammered by the day-traders on the internet who were still in a feeding-frenzy… … gtski

Response:

>But once we are "IN" a reccession… it’s merely the result of previous >economic activity…  eh..??

Nope. It’s due in large oart to the confidence that the market has in the people in power NOW. As soon as Dubya got selected by the Supreme Court the market decided that the economy was fucked. It still is.

Response:

Withdrawal in the First Two Weeks Because the first two weeks are so critical in determining quitting failure rates, smokers should not be shy about seeking all the help they can during this period. Withdrawal symptoms begin as soon as four hours after the last cigarette, generally peak in intensity at three to five days, and disappear after two weeks. They include both physical and mental symptoms. Physical Symptoms. During the quitting process people should consider the following physical symptoms of withdrawal as they were recuperating from a disease and treat them accordingly as they would any physical symptoms:   a.. Tingling in the hands and feet   b.. Sweating   c.. Intestinal disorders (cramps, nausea)   d.. Headache   e.. Cold symptoms as the lungs begin to clear (sore throats, coughing, and other signs of colds and respiratory problem) Mental and Emotional Symptoms. Tension and craving build up during periods of withdrawal, sometimes to a nearly intolerable point. One European study found that the incidence of workplace accidents increases on No Smoking Day, a day in which up to 2 million smokers either reduce the amount they smoke or abstain altogether. Nearly every moderate to heavy smoker experiences more than one of the following strong emotional and mental responses to withdrawal.   a.. Feelings of being an infant: temper tantrums, intense needs, feelings of dependency, a state of near paralysis.   b.. Insomnia   c.. Mental confusion   d.. Vagueness   e.. Irritability   f.. Anxiety   g.. Depression is common in the short and long term. In the short term it may mimic the feelings of grief felt when a loved one is lost. As foolish as it sounds, a smoker should plan on a period of actual mourning in order to get through the early withdrawal depression. Some Common Withdrawal Symptoms:       Anger & Mood Swings       Boredom       Constipation & Gas       Feeling Closed In       Cough, Dry Throat, Nasal Drip       Cravings For Cigarettes       Depression       Dizziness and Invertigo       Feeling tired all the time       Frustration      Headaches       Increase in Appetite       Insomnia       Irritability, Grouchiness       Lack Of Concentration       Loneliness       Night Time Awakenings       Restlessness       Tightness In The Chest       Weight gain Anger and Mood Swings Anger is part of the quitting process. You don’t have to have a reason to feel that way, you just do. Accept it, vent it safely. Deal with the irritating situation by dealing with your feelings rather than suppressing them. Say what’s on your mind without blowing your stack. Anger openly expressed or kept inside creates tension which may create the need for a cigarette. Reducing the tension will reduce your desire for a cigarette. Discuss your anger with your buddy. Take a walk. Do deep breathing exercises. Top Boredom Try new things. Keep your hands and mind busy (write a letter, do dishes, cook, paint, do carpentry, knit, garden, sew). Run some errands, get caught up on jobs you haven’t had time to do, or go see a movie. If you have to stay in one place, have a book/crossword puzzles/deck of cards handy. Top Constipation, gas, stomach pain   Constipation is caused by intestinal movement decreases for a brief period. It will normally last for several weeks.   Drink plenty of liquids (6-8 glasses of water daily); add roughage to diet (fruits, vegetables, whole grain cereals, bran); go for walks.   Top   Feeling cooped up   Feeling of being cooped up are normal. You miss your old friend your cigarettes who used to go everywhere you used to go. Go for a short walk, go swimming, bike riding. Keep yourself physically and mentally busy.   Top   Cough, dry throat/mouth, nasal drip   This is caused from your body getting rid of mucous which has blocked airways and restricted breathing. Drink plenty of fluids; drink cold water, fruit juice, tea; use cough drops, gum or hard candy.   Top   Craving for a cigarette   Withdrawal from nicotine, a strongly addictive drug. It is most frequent the first 2 or 3 days. Occasionally, it can occur for months or for years. Wait out the urge; they only last a few minutes.  Wait until it passes (in general 3 to 5 minutes). Get busy. Start another activity.Think of something else. Focus on your work.Drink some water, chew some gum or eat sugarless candy.Eat something (e.g., some fruit). Breathe deeply several times. Do a relaxing exercise. Brush your teeth. Tell yourself the symptoms will disappear in a few days.   Top   Depression & Despair   Find a substitute reward to smoking. Deal with your emotions. Call your support buddy. Use positive self-talk. Don’t cut yourself down; build yourself up. Don’t allow a self-defeatist attitude (I’m no good, I can’t do this). This can lead to a decreased sense of control and a drop in self-esteem. Think of success, not failure! It’s normal to feel sad, angry, or confused in the first few smoke-free weeks. These feelings will pass but If the depression does not appear to be going away, take it seriously and consult your doctor.   Top   Dizziness   Your body is getting extra oxygen like it hasn’t seen for a long time. Get fresh air, go for a walk, change positions slowly. It will last several days and will go away.   Top   Fatigue   Nicotine is a stimulant. 2 to 4 weeks. Get extra sleep and more exercise; take naps; don’t push yourself. If you feel tired when you first wake up, do some moderate exercises and take a cool shower. Drink 6-8 glasses of water per day to speed up the healing process.   Top   Frustration   Take a walk. Do deep breathing exercises. Talk to your support buddy. Think of the positive reasons for quitting and the rewards you will be able to achieve. Take some time by yourself. Do a favorite hobby.   Top   Headaches   Take a warm bath or shower. Try relaxation or meditation techniques. Do more physical activities. Cut down on coffee and cola drinks.   Top   Increase on Appetite   Craving for a cigarette can be confused with hunger pangs or a simple craving for oral stimulation. For years, your mouth was stimulated every time a cigarette landed between your lips. This has now been removed. Up to several weeks What can I do?   Drink water or low-calorie liquids. Be prepared with low-calorie and low-fat snacks (celery, pretzels, carrots, popcorn, melba toast); chew a toothpick, chew gum, munch on raw vegetables.   Top   Insomnia   Nicotine affects brain wave function. This can influence sleep patterns and dreams about smoking are common. 1 week  Take a hot, relaxing bath, avoid caffeine (coffee, tea, pop) after 6:00pm Try relaxing at bedtime with a glass of warm milk, deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Work on a hobby.   Top   Irritability, grouchy, tense   The body is craving for nicotine. Tobacco smokers are in a chronic state of nervous stimulation. Many of the symptoms quitters experience are the result of the nervous system returning to normal. It normally last for 1-2 weeks. Deep breathe, take walks, exercise, use relaxation techniques, chew nicotine gum, cut down on coffee and pop.   Top   Lack of concentration   The body needs time to adjust to not having constant stimulation from nicotine. A few weeks Change activities, get some fresh air, exercise, deep breathe, listen to music, watch TV, do more physical activity, cut down on coffee and cola, plan workload accordingly, avoid situations that may trigger your desire to smoke.   Top   Loneliness   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real friend. Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray.   Top   Night Time awakenings   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real friend. Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray.   Top   Restlessness   Exercise. Work on a hobby. Catch up on your chores. Do some extra jobs at work.   Top   Tightness in the chest   It is probably due to tension created by the body’s need for nicotine; may be caused by sore muscles from coughing. Part of the recovery process may be the lung’s attempt to remove mucus and tar. The normal mucus transport system will start to reactivate itself, which can initially cause coughing. It will last a few days. Deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Be patient; wait it out! Your body wants to return to normal.   Top   Weight gain   Weight gain from quitting smoking is very normal for most people and you can expect to put on 5-10 pounds over the period of several months. Remember that this extra weight gain is a lot better than continuing to smoke!   Top   And the good news when you quit is that the withdrawal symptoms   get less intense and do go away!       Withdrawal symptom  Duration Proportion of people affected       Irritability/aggression Less than 4 weeks 50%       Depression Less than 4 weeks 60%       Restlessness Less than 4 weeks 60%       Poor concentration Less than 2 weeks 60%       Increased appetite Greater than 10 weeks 70%       Light-headedness Less than 48 hours 10%       Night-time awakenings Less than a week 25%       Craving Greater than 2 weeks 70%       The Truth About Nicotine Withdrawal:       One of the keys to quitting smoking is acknowledging that smoking cigarettes is an addiction that can be managed and overcome. One of the main reasons people give up quitting is because they find the withdrawal symptoms so fierce and unexpected. Don’t worry these symptoms are actually good news, signs that your body is purging itself of all the harmful chemicals cigarettes left in your body.       Most people do not experience all of the symptoms below:       Dizziness Increased oxygen levels in blood and blood pressure lowering to normal Be careful, take precautions and don’t work to hard       1 – 5 days       Coughing, nose running The body’s respiratory system begins to clean itself Drink lots of fluids       1 – 5 days       Sore throat The clearing away of nicotine and tar and the

… read more »

Response:

Bren, this is *very* informative. Do you have the URL to the site this came from? I’d like to visit it. TIA, Lane, DOF+, f3as3, QB Read my Diary of a Quitter: http://www.bluethunder.org/quitterhome.html We cannot all do great things, but we can do small things with great love.     – Mother Theresa — 2y 5m 1w 6d 12:38  smoke-free, 35,869 cigs not smoked, $7,173.80 saved, 4m 3d 13:05  life saved

: Withdrawal in the First Two Weeks : : Because the first two weeks are so critical in determining quitting failure : rates, smokers should not be shy about seeking all the help they can during : this period. : : Withdrawal symptoms begin as soon as four hours after the last cigarette, : generally peak in intensity at three to five days, and disappear after two : weeks. They include both physical and mental symptoms. : : Physical Symptoms. During the quitting process people should consider the : following physical symptoms of withdrawal as they were recuperating from a : disease and treat them accordingly as they would any physical symptoms: : :   a.. Tingling in the hands and feet :   b.. Sweating :   c.. Intestinal disorders (cramps, nausea) :   d.. Headache :   e.. Cold symptoms as the lungs begin to clear (sore throats, coughing, and : other signs of colds and respiratory problem) : Mental and Emotional Symptoms. Tension and craving build up during periods : of withdrawal, sometimes to a nearly intolerable point. One European study : found that the incidence of workplace accidents increases on No Smoking Day, : a day in which up to 2 million smokers either reduce the amount they smoke : or abstain altogether. : : Nearly every moderate to heavy smoker experiences more than one of the : following strong emotional and mental responses to withdrawal. : :   a.. Feelings of being an infant: temper tantrums, intense needs, feelings : of dependency, a state of near paralysis. :   b.. Insomnia :   c.. Mental confusion :   d.. Vagueness :   e.. Irritability :   f.. Anxiety :   g.. Depression is common in the short and long term. In the short term it : may mimic the feelings of grief felt when a loved one is lost. As foolish as : it sounds, a smoker should plan on a period of actual mourning in order to : get through the early withdrawal depression. : Some Common Withdrawal Symptoms: : :       Anger & Mood Swings :       Boredom :       Constipation & Gas :       Feeling Closed In :       Cough, Dry Throat, Nasal Drip :       Cravings For Cigarettes :       Depression :       Dizziness and Invertigo :       Feeling tired all the time :       Frustration :      Headaches :       Increase in Appetite :       Insomnia :       Irritability, Grouchiness :       Lack Of Concentration :       Loneliness :       Night Time Awakenings :       Restlessness :       Tightness In The Chest :       Weight gain : : : : Anger and Mood Swings : Anger is part of the quitting process. You don’t have to have a reason to : feel that way, you just do. Accept it, vent it safely. Deal with the : irritating situation by dealing with your feelings rather than suppressing : them. Say what’s on your mind without blowing your stack. Anger openly : expressed or kept inside creates tension which may create the need for a : cigarette. Reducing the tension will reduce your desire for a cigarette. : Discuss your anger with your buddy. Take a walk. Do deep breathing : exercises. : : Top : : : Boredom : Try new things. Keep your hands and mind busy (write a letter, do dishes, : cook, paint, do carpentry, knit, garden, sew). Run some errands, get caught : up on jobs you haven’t had time to do, or go see a movie. If you have to : stay in one place, have a book/crossword puzzles/deck of cards handy. : : Top : : : Constipation, gas, stomach pain :   Constipation is caused by intestinal movement decreases for a brief : period. It will normally last for several weeks. :   Drink plenty of liquids (6-8 glasses of water daily); add roughage to diet : (fruits, vegetables, whole grain cereals, bran); go for walks. : : :   Top : : :   Feeling cooped up :   Feeling of being cooped up are normal. You miss your old friend your : cigarettes who used to go everywhere you used to go. Go for a short walk, go : swimming, bike riding. Keep yourself physically and mentally busy. : :   Top : : :   Cough, dry throat/mouth, nasal drip :   This is caused from your body getting rid of mucous which has blocked : airways and restricted breathing. Drink plenty of fluids; drink cold water, : fruit juice, tea; use cough drops, gum or hard candy. : :   Top : : :   Craving for a cigarette :   Withdrawal from nicotine, a strongly addictive drug. It is most frequent : the first 2 or 3 days. Occasionally, it can occur for months or for years. : Wait out the urge; they only last a few minutes.  Wait until it passes (in : general 3 to 5 minutes). Get busy. Start another activity.Think of something : else. Focus on your work.Drink some water, chew some gum or eat sugarless : candy.Eat something (e.g., some fruit). Breathe deeply several times. Do a : relaxing exercise. Brush your teeth. Tell yourself the symptoms will : disappear in a few days. : : : : :   Top : : :   Depression & Despair :   Find a substitute reward to smoking. Deal with your emotions. Call your : support buddy. Use positive self-talk. Don’t cut yourself down; build : yourself up. Don’t allow a self-defeatist attitude (I’m no good, I can’t do : this). This can lead to a decreased sense of control and a drop in : self-esteem. Think of success, not failure! It’s normal to feel sad, angry, : or confused in the first few smoke-free weeks. These feelings will pass but : If the depression does not appear to be going away, take it seriously and : consult your doctor. : :   Top : : :   Dizziness :   Your body is getting extra oxygen like it hasn’t seen for a long time. Get : fresh air, go for a walk, change positions slowly. It will last several days : and will go away. : :   Top : : :   Fatigue :   Nicotine is a stimulant. 2 to 4 weeks. Get extra sleep and more exercise; : take naps; don’t push yourself. If you feel tired when you first wake up, do : some moderate exercises and take a cool shower. Drink 6-8 glasses of water : per day to speed up the healing process. : : :   Top : : :   Frustration :   Take a walk. Do deep breathing exercises. Talk to your support buddy. : Think of the positive reasons for quitting and the rewards you will be able : to achieve. Take some time by yourself. Do a favorite hobby. : :   Top : : :   Headaches :   Take a warm bath or shower. Try relaxation or meditation techniques. Do : more physical activities. Cut down on coffee and cola drinks. : :   Top : : :   Increase on Appetite :   Craving for a cigarette can be confused with hunger pangs or a simple : craving for oral stimulation. For years, your mouth was stimulated every : time a cigarette landed between your lips. This has now been removed. Up to : several weeks What can I do? :   Drink water or low-calorie liquids. Be prepared with low-calorie and : low-fat snacks (celery, pretzels, carrots, popcorn, melba toast); chew a : toothpick, chew gum, munch on raw vegetables. : :   Top : : :   Insomnia :   Nicotine affects brain wave function. This can influence sleep patterns : and dreams about smoking are common. 1 week  Take a hot, relaxing bath, : avoid caffeine (coffee, tea, pop) after 6:00pm Try relaxing at bedtime with : a glass of warm milk, deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Work on a : hobby. : :   Top : : :   Irritability, grouchy, tense :   The body is craving for nicotine. Tobacco smokers are in a chronic state : of nervous stimulation. Many of the symptoms quitters experience are the : result of the nervous system returning to normal. It normally last for 1-2 : weeks. Deep breathe, take walks, exercise, use relaxation techniques, chew : nicotine gum, cut down on coffee and pop. : :   Top : : :   Lack of concentration :   The body needs time to adjust to not having constant stimulation from : nicotine. A few weeks Change activities, get some fresh air, exercise, deep : breathe, listen to music, watch TV, do more physical activity, cut down on : coffee and cola, plan workload accordingly, avoid situations that may : trigger your desire to smoke. : :   Top : : :   Loneliness :   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real friend. : Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray. : :   Top : : :   Night Time awakenings :   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real friend. : Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray. : :   Top : : :   Restlessness :   Exercise. Work on a hobby. Catch up on your chores. Do some extra jobs at : work. : :   Top : : :   Tightness in the chest :   It is probably due to tension created by the body’s need for nicotine; may : be caused by sore muscles from coughing. Part of the recovery process may be : the lung’s attempt to remove mucus and tar. The normal mucus transport : system will start to reactivate itself, which can initially cause coughing. : It will last a few days. Deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Be : patient; wait it out! Your body wants to return to normal. : :   Top : : :   Weight gain :   Weight gain from quitting smoking is very normal for most people and you : can expect to put on 5-10 pounds over the period of several months. Remember : that this extra weight gain is a lot better than continuing to smoke! : :   Top : :   And the good news when you quit is that the withdrawal symptoms :   get less intense and do go away! : :       Withdrawal symptom  Duration Proportion of people affected :       Irritability/aggression Less than 4 weeks 50% :       Depression Less than 4 weeks 60% :       Restlessness Less than 4 weeks 60% :       Poor concentration Less than 2 weeks 60% :       Increased appetite Greater than 10 weeks 70% :       Light-headedness Less

… read more »

Response:

http://www.quitsmokingsupport.com/withdrawal1.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bren, > this is *very* informative. Do you have the URL to the site this came from? > I’d like to visit it. > TIA, > Lane, DOF+, f3as3, QB > Read my Diary of a Quitter: > http://www.bluethunder.org/quitterhome.html > We cannot all do great things, > but we can do small things with great love. >     – Mother Theresa > — > 2y 5m 1w 6d 12:38  smoke-free, 35,869 cigs not smoked, $7,173.80 saved, 4m > 3d 13:05  life saved > : Withdrawal in the First Two Weeks > : > : Because the first two weeks are so critical in determining quitting > failure > : rates, smokers should not be shy about seeking all the help they can > during > : this period. > : > : Withdrawal symptoms begin as soon as four hours after the last cigarette, > : generally peak in intensity at three to five days, and disappear after two > : weeks. They include both physical and mental symptoms. > : > : Physical Symptoms. During the quitting process people should consider the > : following physical symptoms of withdrawal as they were recuperating from a > : disease and treat them accordingly as they would any physical symptoms: > : > :   a.. Tingling in the hands and feet > :   b.. Sweating > :   c.. Intestinal disorders (cramps, nausea) > :   d.. Headache > :   e.. Cold symptoms as the lungs begin to clear (sore throats, coughing, > and > : other signs of colds and respiratory problem) > : Mental and Emotional Symptoms. Tension and craving build up during periods > : of withdrawal, sometimes to a nearly intolerable point. One European study > : found that the incidence of workplace accidents increases on No Smoking > Day, > : a day in which up to 2 million smokers either reduce the amount they smoke > : or abstain altogether. > : > : Nearly every moderate to heavy smoker experiences more than one of the > : following strong emotional and mental responses to withdrawal. > : > :   a.. Feelings of being an infant: temper tantrums, intense needs, > feelings > : of dependency, a state of near paralysis. > :   b.. Insomnia > :   c.. Mental confusion > :   d.. Vagueness > :   e.. Irritability > :   f.. Anxiety > :   g.. Depression is common in the short and long term. In the short term > it > : may mimic the feelings of grief felt when a loved one is lost. As foolish > as > : it sounds, a smoker should plan on a period of actual mourning in order to > : get through the early withdrawal depression. > : Some Common Withdrawal Symptoms: > : > :       Anger & Mood Swings > :       Boredom > :       Constipation & Gas > :       Feeling Closed In > :       Cough, Dry Throat, Nasal Drip > :       Cravings For Cigarettes > :       Depression > :       Dizziness and Invertigo > :       Feeling tired all the time > :       Frustration > :      Headaches > :       Increase in Appetite > :       Insomnia > :       Irritability, Grouchiness > :       Lack Of Concentration > :       Loneliness > :       Night Time Awakenings > :       Restlessness > :       Tightness In The Chest > :       Weight gain > : > : > : > : Anger and Mood Swings > : Anger is part of the quitting process. You don’t have to have a reason to > : feel that way, you just do. Accept it, vent it safely. Deal with the > : irritating situation by dealing with your feelings rather than suppressing > : them. Say what’s on your mind without blowing your stack. Anger openly > : expressed or kept inside creates tension which may create the need for a > : cigarette. Reducing the tension will reduce your desire for a cigarette. > : Discuss your anger with your buddy. Take a walk. Do deep breathing > : exercises. > : > : Top > : > : > : Boredom > : Try new things. Keep your hands and mind busy (write a letter, do dishes, > : cook, paint, do carpentry, knit, garden, sew). Run some errands, get > caught > : up on jobs you haven’t had time to do, or go see a movie. If you have to > : stay in one place, have a book/crossword puzzles/deck of cards handy. > : > : Top > : > : > : Constipation, gas, stomach pain > :   Constipation is caused by intestinal movement decreases for a brief > : period. It will normally last for several weeks. > :   Drink plenty of liquids (6-8 glasses of water daily); add roughage to > diet > : (fruits, vegetables, whole grain cereals, bran); go for walks. > : > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Feeling cooped up > :   Feeling of being cooped up are normal. You miss your old friend your > : cigarettes who used to go everywhere you used to go. Go for a short walk, > go > : swimming, bike riding. Keep yourself physically and mentally busy. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Cough, dry throat/mouth, nasal drip > :   This is caused from your body getting rid of mucous which has blocked > : airways and restricted breathing. Drink plenty of fluids; drink cold > water, > : fruit juice, tea; use cough drops, gum or hard candy. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Craving for a cigarette > :   Withdrawal from nicotine, a strongly addictive drug. It is most frequent > : the first 2 or 3 days. Occasionally, it can occur for months or for years. > : Wait out the urge; they only last a few minutes.  Wait until it passes (in > : general 3 to 5 minutes). Get busy. Start another activity.Think of > something > : else. Focus on your work.Drink some water, chew some gum or eat sugarless > : candy.Eat something (e.g., some fruit). Breathe deeply several times. Do a > : relaxing exercise. Brush your teeth. Tell yourself the symptoms will > : disappear in a few days. > : > : > : > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Depression & Despair > :   Find a substitute reward to smoking. Deal with your emotions. Call your > : support buddy. Use positive self-talk. Don’t cut yourself down; build > : yourself up. Don’t allow a self-defeatist attitude (I’m no good, I can’t > do > : this). This can lead to a decreased sense of control and a drop in > : self-esteem. Think of success, not failure! It’s normal to feel sad, > angry, > : or confused in the first few smoke-free weeks. These feelings will pass > but > : If the depression does not appear to be going away, take it seriously and > : consult your doctor. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Dizziness > :   Your body is getting extra oxygen like it hasn’t seen for a long time. > Get > : fresh air, go for a walk, change positions slowly. It will last several > days > : and will go away. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Fatigue > :   Nicotine is a stimulant. 2 to 4 weeks. Get extra sleep and more > exercise; > : take naps; don’t push yourself. If you feel tired when you first wake up, > do > : some moderate exercises and take a cool shower. Drink 6-8 glasses of water > : per day to speed up the healing process. > : > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Frustration > :   Take a walk. Do deep breathing exercises. Talk to your support buddy. > : Think of the positive reasons for quitting and the rewards you will be > able > : to achieve. Take some time by yourself. Do a favorite hobby. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Headaches > :   Take a warm bath or shower. Try relaxation or meditation techniques. Do > : more physical activities. Cut down on coffee and cola drinks. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Increase on Appetite > :   Craving for a cigarette can be confused with hunger pangs or a simple > : craving for oral stimulation. For years, your mouth was stimulated every > : time a cigarette landed between your lips. This has now been removed. Up > to > : several weeks What can I do? > :   Drink water or low-calorie liquids. Be prepared with low-calorie and > : low-fat snacks (celery, pretzels, carrots, popcorn, melba toast); chew a > : toothpick, chew gum, munch on raw vegetables. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Insomnia > :   Nicotine affects brain wave function. This can influence sleep patterns > : and dreams about smoking are common. 1 week  Take a hot, relaxing bath, > : avoid caffeine (coffee, tea, pop) after 6:00pm Try relaxing at bedtime > with > : a glass of warm milk, deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Work on a > : hobby. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Irritability, grouchy, tense > :   The body is craving for nicotine. Tobacco smokers are in a chronic state > : of nervous stimulation. Many of the symptoms quitters experience are the > : result of the nervous system returning to normal. It normally last for 1-2 > : weeks. Deep breathe, take walks, exercise, use relaxation techniques, chew > : nicotine gum, cut down on coffee and pop. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Lack of concentration > :   The body needs time to adjust to not having constant stimulation from > : nicotine. A few weeks Change activities, get some fresh air, exercise, > deep > : breathe, listen to music, watch TV, do more physical activity, cut down on > : coffee and cola, plan workload accordingly, avoid situations that may > : trigger your desire to smoke. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Loneliness > :   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real > friend. > : Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Night Time awakenings > :   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real > friend. > : Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Restlessness > :   Exercise. Work on a hobby. Catch up on your chores. Do some extra jobs > at > : work. > : > :   Top > : > : > :   Tightness in the chest > :   It is probably due to tension created by the body’s need for nicotine; > may > : be caused by sore muscles from coughing. Part of the recovery process may > be > : the lung’s attempt to remove mucus and tar. The normal mucus transport > : system will start to reactivate itself, which can initially cause > coughing. > : It will last a few days. Deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Be > : patient; wait it out! Your body wants to

… read more »

Response:

I guess I got wind bad too, although its hard to tell with me, I fart like a trooper whatever the circumstances. Cheers Sue – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> So okay, gas is bad, we were blaming it on the Wow chips but today I >> hadn’t had any of those for 3 days and still had bad gas. >oh god you shoulda been in my office yesterday. > Hi, Joon.  Yes, I had that too, really badly.  After three weeks it’s > mostly gone away, though. > —

Response:

Bren quoted: > Some Common Withdrawal Symptoms: <snipped> >       Dizziness and Invertigo

Uh, wouldn’t "invertigo" be *not* feeling dizzy? — Bob Christofferson Extremely old fogey, Hitchcock-movie fan

Response:

Me too, it drives me crazy and the kids think it’s hilarious.  I wonder if it will ever go away… and beans!  OMG!  They NEVER bothered me before. With hope and heart, Kathleen "Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear." — Dave Barry : I guess I got wind bad too, although its hard to tell with me, I fart : like a trooper whatever the circumstances. : Cheers : Sue : > >> So okay, gas is bad, we were blaming it on the Wow chips but today I : > >> hadn’t had any of those for 3 days and still had bad gas. : > >oh god you shoulda been in my office yesterday. : > Hi, Joon.  Yes, I had that too, really badly.  After three weeks it’s : > mostly gone away, though.

Response:

> Bren quoted: > Some Common Withdrawal Symptoms: <snipped> >       Dizziness and Invertigo > Uh, wouldn’t "invertigo" be *not* feeling dizzy?

No, I think it’s feeling dizzy while you are hanging upside down.  Bats get it a lot. hugs, elle

Response:

 Withdrawal in the First Two Weeks  Because the first two weeks are so critical in determining quitting  failure rates, smokers should not be shy about seeking all the help they can during this period. Withdrawal symptoms begin as soon as four hours after the last cigarette, generally peak in intensity at three to five days, and disappear after two weeks. They include both physical and mental symptoms. Physical Symptoms. During the quitting process people should consider the following physical symptoms of withdrawal as they were recuperating from disease and treat them accordingly as they would any physical symptoms:    a.. Tingling in the hands and feet Has anyone experienced the ‘tingling’ in the hands or feet ? Starting on the fourth day of my quit, both my hands felt numb, and it lasted for three days. Now it occurs sporadically. I originally thought it was a relapse of carpal tunnel syndrome I had experienced five years ago, but now I’m not so sure, especially since it affected both hands at the same time, and happened so suddenly. AS3 is a life-saver. Your posts keep me from backsliding. Thanks! Frank B. 1wk 6days

Response:

>> So okay, gas is bad, we were blaming it on the Wow chips but today I > hadn’t had any of those for 3 days and still had bad gas. >oh god you shoulda been in my office yesterday.

Hi, Joon.  Yes, I had that too, really badly.  After three weeks it’s mostly gone away, though. —

Response:

Joon, hadn’t seen you around before but you are just TOO FUNNY!!! thanks for all those giggles! How many chips do i owe ya?  poppy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> So okay, gas is bad, we were blaming it on the Wow chips but today I > hadn’t had any of those for 3 days and still had bad gas. > oh god you shoulda been in my office yesterday. > on second thought, maybe you shoudn’t. it was baaaaaaaad. and loud. > jeez. the pressure was so bad it got to the point where I didn’t care > anymore if someone heard me ripping a giant fart. > today I was fine. go figure. must’ve been something I ate because I > sure can’t imagine farting being a withdrawal symptom. > — > you know, if Jesus comes back to Earth, I bet the last > thing he’ll want to see again is another cross.

Response:

http://www.quitsmokingsupport.com/withdrawal1.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> how about the url itself?  I just can’t read all of this and would > like to. > Withdrawal in the First Two Weeks > Because the first two weeks are so critical in determining quitting > failure > rates, smokers should not be shy about seeking all the help they can > during > this period. > Withdrawal symptoms begin as soon as four hours after the last > cigarette, > generally peak in intensity at three to five days, and disappear after > two > weeks. They include both physical and mental symptoms. > Physical Symptoms. During the quitting process people should consider > the > following physical symptoms of withdrawal as they were recuperating > from a > disease and treat them accordingly as they would any physical > symptoms: >   a.. Tingling in the hands and feet >   b.. Sweating >   c.. Intestinal disorders (cramps, nausea) >   d.. Headache >   e.. Cold symptoms as the lungs begin to clear (sore throats, > coughing, and > other signs of colds and respiratory problem) > Mental and Emotional Symptoms. Tension and craving build up during > periods > of withdrawal, sometimes to a nearly intolerable point. One European > study > found that the incidence of workplace accidents increases on No > Smoking Day, > a day in which up to 2 million smokers either reduce the amount they > smoke > or abstain altogether. > Nearly every moderate to heavy smoker experiences more than one of the > following strong emotional and mental responses to withdrawal. >   a.. Feelings of being an infant: temper tantrums, intense needs, > feelings > of dependency, a state of near paralysis. >   b.. Insomnia >   c.. Mental confusion >   d.. Vagueness >   e.. Irritability >   f.. Anxiety >   g.. Depression is common in the short and long term. In the short > term it > may mimic the feelings of grief felt when a loved one is lost. As > foolish as > it sounds, a smoker should plan on a period of actual mourning in > order to > get through the early withdrawal depression. > Some Common Withdrawal Symptoms: >       Anger & Mood Swings >       Boredom >       Constipation & Gas >       Feeling Closed In >       Cough, Dry Throat, Nasal Drip >       Cravings For Cigarettes >       Depression >       Dizziness and Invertigo >       Feeling tired all the time >       Frustration >      Headaches >       Increase in Appetite >       Insomnia >       Irritability, Grouchiness >       Lack Of Concentration >       Loneliness >       Night Time Awakenings >       Restlessness >       Tightness In The Chest >       Weight gain > Anger and Mood Swings > Anger is part of the quitting process. You don’t have to have a reason > to > feel that way, you just do. Accept it, vent it safely. Deal with the > irritating situation by dealing with your feelings rather than > suppressing > them. Say what’s on your mind without blowing your stack. Anger openly > expressed or kept inside creates tension which may create the need for > a > cigarette. Reducing the tension will reduce your desire for a > cigarette. > Discuss your anger with your buddy. Take a walk. Do deep breathing > exercises. > Top > Boredom > Try new things. Keep your hands and mind busy (write a letter, do > dishes, > cook, paint, do carpentry, knit, garden, sew). Run some errands, get > caught > up on jobs you haven’t had time to do, or go see a movie. If you have > to > stay in one place, have a book/crossword puzzles/deck of cards handy. > Top > Constipation, gas, stomach pain >   Constipation is caused by intestinal movement decreases for a brief > period. It will normally last for several weeks. >   Drink plenty of liquids (6-8 glasses of water daily); add roughage > to diet > (fruits, vegetables, whole grain cereals, bran); go for walks. >   Top >   Feeling cooped up >   Feeling of being cooped up are normal. You miss your old friend your > cigarettes who used to go everywhere you used to go. Go for a short > walk, go > swimming, bike riding. Keep yourself physically and mentally busy. >   Top >   Cough, dry throat/mouth, nasal drip >   This is caused from your body getting rid of mucous which has > blocked > airways and restricted breathing. Drink plenty of fluids; drink cold > water, > fruit juice, tea; use cough drops, gum or hard candy. >   Top >   Craving for a cigarette >   Withdrawal from nicotine, a strongly addictive drug. It is most > frequent > the first 2 or 3 days. Occasionally, it can occur for months or for > years. > Wait out the urge; they only last a few minutes.  Wait until it passes > (in > general 3 to 5 minutes). Get busy. Start another activity.Think of > something > else. Focus on your work.Drink some water, chew some gum or eat > sugarless > candy.Eat something (e.g., some fruit). Breathe deeply several times. > Do a > relaxing exercise. Brush your teeth. Tell yourself the symptoms will > disappear in a few days. >   Top >   Depression & Despair >   Find a substitute reward to smoking. Deal with your emotions. Call > your > support buddy. Use positive self-talk. Don’t cut yourself down; build > yourself up. Don’t allow a self-defeatist attitude (I’m no good, I > can’t do > this). This can lead to a decreased sense of control and a drop in > self-esteem. Think of success, not failure! It’s normal to feel sad, > angry, > or confused in the first few smoke-free weeks. These feelings will > pass but > If the depression does not appear to be going away, take it seriously > and > consult your doctor. >   Top >   Dizziness >   Your body is getting extra oxygen like it hasn’t seen for a long > time. Get > fresh air, go for a walk, change positions slowly. It will last > several days > and will go away. >   Top >   Fatigue >   Nicotine is a stimulant. 2 to 4 weeks. Get extra sleep and more > exercise; > take naps; don’t push yourself. If you feel tired when you first wake > up, do > some moderate exercises and take a cool shower. Drink 6-8 glasses of > water > per day to speed up the healing process. >   Top >   Frustration >   Take a walk. Do deep breathing exercises. Talk to your support > buddy. > Think of the positive reasons for quitting and the rewards you will be > able > to achieve. Take some time by yourself. Do a favorite hobby. >   Top >   Headaches >   Take a warm bath or shower. Try relaxation or meditation techniques. > Do > more physical activities. Cut down on coffee and cola drinks. >   Top >   Increase on Appetite >   Craving for a cigarette can be confused with hunger pangs or a > simple > craving for oral stimulation. For years, your mouth was stimulated > every > time a cigarette landed between your lips. This has now been removed. > Up to > several weeks What can I do? >   Drink water or low-calorie liquids. Be prepared with low-calorie and > low-fat snacks (celery, pretzels, carrots, popcorn, melba toast); chew > a > toothpick, chew gum, munch on raw vegetables. >   Top >   Insomnia >   Nicotine affects brain wave function. This can influence sleep > patterns > and dreams about smoking are common. 1 week  Take a hot, relaxing > bath, > avoid caffeine (coffee, tea, pop) after 6:00pm Try relaxing at bedtime > with > a glass of warm milk, deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Work > on a > hobby. >   Top >   Irritability, grouchy, tense >   The body is craving for nicotine. Tobacco smokers are in a chronic > state > of nervous stimulation. Many of the symptoms quitters experience are > the > result of the nervous system returning to normal. It normally last for > 1-2 > weeks. Deep breathe, take walks, exercise, use relaxation techniques, > chew > nicotine gum, cut down on coffee and pop. >   Top >   Lack of concentration >   The body needs time to adjust to not having constant stimulation > from > nicotine. A few weeks Change activities, get some fresh air, exercise, > deep > breathe, listen to music, watch TV, do more physical activity, cut > down on > coffee and cola, plan workload accordingly, avoid situations that may > trigger your desire to smoke. >   Top >   Loneliness >   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real > friend. > Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray. >   Top >   Night Time awakenings >   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real > friend. > Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray. >   Top >   Restlessness >   Exercise. Work on a hobby. Catch up on your chores. Do some extra > jobs at > work. >   Top >   Tightness in the chest >   It is probably due to tension created by the body’s need for > nicotine; may > be caused by sore muscles from coughing. Part of the recovery process > may be > the lung’s attempt to remove mucus and tar. The normal mucus transport > system will start to reactivate itself, which can initially cause > coughing. > It will last a few days. Deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Be > patient; wait it out! Your body wants to return to normal. >   Top >   Weight gain >   Weight gain from quitting smoking is very normal for most people and > you > can expect to put on 5-10 pounds over the period of several months. > Remember > that this extra weight gain is a lot better than continuing to smoke! >   Top >   And the good news when you quit is that the withdrawal symptoms >   get less intense and do go away! >       Withdrawal symptom  Duration Proportion of people affected >       Irritability/aggression Less than 4 weeks 50% >       Depression Less than 4 weeks 60% >       Restlessness Less than 4 weeks 60% >       Poor concentration Less than 2 weeks 60% >       Increased appetite Greater than 10 weeks 70% >       Light-headedness Less than 48 hours 10% >       Night-time awakenings

… read more »

Response:

how about the url itself?  I just can’t read all of this and would like to.

Withdrawal in the First Two Weeks Because the first two weeks are so critical in determining quitting failure rates, smokers should not be shy about seeking all the help they can during this period. Withdrawal symptoms begin as soon as four hours after the last cigarette, generally peak in intensity at three to five days, and disappear after two weeks. They include both physical and mental symptoms. Physical Symptoms. During the quitting process people should consider the following physical symptoms of withdrawal as they were recuperating from a disease and treat them accordingly as they would any physical symptoms:   a.. Tingling in the hands and feet   b.. Sweating   c.. Intestinal disorders (cramps, nausea)   d.. Headache   e.. Cold symptoms as the lungs begin to clear (sore throats, coughing, and other signs of colds and respiratory problem) Mental and Emotional Symptoms. Tension and craving build up during periods of withdrawal, sometimes to a nearly intolerable point. One European study found that the incidence of workplace accidents increases on No Smoking Day, a day in which up to 2 million smokers either reduce the amount they smoke or abstain altogether. Nearly every moderate to heavy smoker experiences more than one of the following strong emotional and mental responses to withdrawal.   a.. Feelings of being an infant: temper tantrums, intense needs, feelings of dependency, a state of near paralysis.   b.. Insomnia   c.. Mental confusion   d.. Vagueness   e.. Irritability   f.. Anxiety   g.. Depression is common in the short and long term. In the short term it may mimic the feelings of grief felt when a loved one is lost. As foolish as it sounds, a smoker should plan on a period of actual mourning in order to get through the early withdrawal depression. Some Common Withdrawal Symptoms:       Anger & Mood Swings       Boredom       Constipation & Gas       Feeling Closed In       Cough, Dry Throat, Nasal Drip       Cravings For Cigarettes       Depression       Dizziness and Invertigo       Feeling tired all the time       Frustration      Headaches       Increase in Appetite       Insomnia       Irritability, Grouchiness       Lack Of Concentration       Loneliness       Night Time Awakenings       Restlessness       Tightness In The Chest       Weight gain Anger and Mood Swings Anger is part of the quitting process. You don’t have to have a reason to feel that way, you just do. Accept it, vent it safely. Deal with the irritating situation by dealing with your feelings rather than suppressing them. Say what’s on your mind without blowing your stack. Anger openly expressed or kept inside creates tension which may create the need for a cigarette. Reducing the tension will reduce your desire for a cigarette. Discuss your anger with your buddy. Take a walk. Do deep breathing exercises. Top Boredom Try new things. Keep your hands and mind busy (write a letter, do dishes, cook, paint, do carpentry, knit, garden, sew). Run some errands, get caught up on jobs you haven’t had time to do, or go see a movie. If you have to stay in one place, have a book/crossword puzzles/deck of cards handy. Top Constipation, gas, stomach pain   Constipation is caused by intestinal movement decreases for a brief period. It will normally last for several weeks.   Drink plenty of liquids (6-8 glasses of water daily); add roughage to diet (fruits, vegetables, whole grain cereals, bran); go for walks.   Top   Feeling cooped up   Feeling of being cooped up are normal. You miss your old friend your cigarettes who used to go everywhere you used to go. Go for a short walk, go swimming, bike riding. Keep yourself physically and mentally busy.   Top   Cough, dry throat/mouth, nasal drip   This is caused from your body getting rid of mucous which has blocked airways and restricted breathing. Drink plenty of fluids; drink cold water, fruit juice, tea; use cough drops, gum or hard candy.   Top   Craving for a cigarette   Withdrawal from nicotine, a strongly addictive drug. It is most frequent the first 2 or 3 days. Occasionally, it can occur for months or for years. Wait out the urge; they only last a few minutes.  Wait until it passes (in general 3 to 5 minutes). Get busy. Start another activity.Think of something else. Focus on your work.Drink some water, chew some gum or eat sugarless candy.Eat something (e.g., some fruit). Breathe deeply several times. Do a relaxing exercise. Brush your teeth. Tell yourself the symptoms will disappear in a few days.   Top   Depression & Despair   Find a substitute reward to smoking. Deal with your emotions. Call your support buddy. Use positive self-talk. Don’t cut yourself down; build yourself up. Don’t allow a self-defeatist attitude (I’m no good, I can’t do this). This can lead to a decreased sense of control and a drop in self-esteem. Think of success, not failure! It’s normal to feel sad, angry, or confused in the first few smoke-free weeks. These feelings will pass but If the depression does not appear to be going away, take it seriously and consult your doctor.   Top   Dizziness   Your body is getting extra oxygen like it hasn’t seen for a long time. Get fresh air, go for a walk, change positions slowly. It will last several days and will go away.   Top   Fatigue   Nicotine is a stimulant. 2 to 4 weeks. Get extra sleep and more exercise; take naps; don’t push yourself. If you feel tired when you first wake up, do some moderate exercises and take a cool shower. Drink 6-8 glasses of water per day to speed up the healing process.   Top   Frustration   Take a walk. Do deep breathing exercises. Talk to your support buddy. Think of the positive reasons for quitting and the rewards you will be able to achieve. Take some time by yourself. Do a favorite hobby.   Top   Headaches   Take a warm bath or shower. Try relaxation or meditation techniques. Do more physical activities. Cut down on coffee and cola drinks.   Top   Increase on Appetite   Craving for a cigarette can be confused with hunger pangs or a simple craving for oral stimulation. For years, your mouth was stimulated every time a cigarette landed between your lips. This has now been removed. Up to several weeks What can I do?   Drink water or low-calorie liquids. Be prepared with low-calorie and low-fat snacks (celery, pretzels, carrots, popcorn, melba toast); chew a toothpick, chew gum, munch on raw vegetables.   Top   Insomnia   Nicotine affects brain wave function. This can influence sleep patterns and dreams about smoking are common. 1 week  Take a hot, relaxing bath, avoid caffeine (coffee, tea, pop) after 6:00pm Try relaxing at bedtime with a glass of warm milk, deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Work on a hobby.   Top   Irritability, grouchy, tense   The body is craving for nicotine. Tobacco smokers are in a chronic state of nervous stimulation. Many of the symptoms quitters experience are the result of the nervous system returning to normal. It normally last for 1-2 weeks. Deep breathe, take walks, exercise, use relaxation techniques, chew nicotine gum, cut down on coffee and pop.   Top   Lack of concentration   The body needs time to adjust to not having constant stimulation from nicotine. A few weeks Change activities, get some fresh air, exercise, deep breathe, listen to music, watch TV, do more physical activity, cut down on coffee and cola, plan workload accordingly, avoid situations that may trigger your desire to smoke.   Top   Loneliness   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real friend. Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray.   Top   Night Time awakenings   Cigarettes are seen by many people as a close friend. Call a real friend. Go for a walk or a drive. Sing, pray.   Top   Restlessness   Exercise. Work on a hobby. Catch up on your chores. Do some extra jobs at work.   Top   Tightness in the chest   It is probably due to tension created by the body’s need for nicotine; may be caused by sore muscles from coughing. Part of the recovery process may be the lung’s attempt to remove mucus and tar. The normal mucus transport system will start to reactivate itself, which can initially cause coughing. It will last a few days. Deep breathing and relaxation techniques. Be patient; wait it out! Your body wants to return to normal.   Top   Weight gain   Weight gain from quitting smoking is very normal for most people and you can expect to put on 5-10 pounds over the period of several months. Remember that this extra weight gain is a lot better than continuing to smoke!   Top   And the good news when you quit is that the withdrawal symptoms   get less intense and do go away!       Withdrawal symptom  Duration Proportion of people affected       Irritability/aggression Less than 4 weeks 50%       Depression Less than 4 weeks 60%       Restlessness Less than 4 weeks 60%       Poor concentration Less than 2 weeks 60%       Increased appetite Greater than 10 weeks 70%       Light-headedness Less than 48 hours 10%       Night-time awakenings Less than a week 25%       Craving Greater than 2 weeks 70%       The Truth About Nicotine Withdrawal:       One of the keys to quitting smoking is acknowledging that smoking cigarettes is an addiction that can be managed and overcome. One of the main reasons people give up quitting is because they find the withdrawal symptoms so fierce and unexpected. Don’t worry these symptoms are actually good news, signs that your body is purging itself of all the harmful chemicals cigarettes left in your body.       Most people do not experience all of the symptoms below:       Dizziness Increased oxygen levels in blood and blood pressure lowering to normal Be careful, take precautions and don’t work to hard       1 – 5 days

… read more »

Response:

yeah the insomnia is just an excuse…HA! Trust me Ozmee, all of those withdrawal symptoms are VERY true.  You may not experience all of them, but there are alot of people that experience some of them. When tar and nicotine gook up every single neurotransmitter and every single cell of your body for how many years…?…you gotta expect some nasty shit to come down the pike when you quit. Bren (who experienced quit related depression, quit related colitis, insomnia, etc….) Two years, five months, three weeks, six days, 2 hours, 35 minutes and 54 seconds. 18202 airstealers not smoked, saving $2,439.20. Life saved: 9 weeks, 4 hours, 50 minutes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Right in the middle of reading this, as usual OE decided to put me > back at the stupid top!  That happens a lot and really pisses me off. > It happens when the program goes and checks the mail I think, which I > have set for every 3 minutes. > So okay, gas is bad, we were blaming it on the Wow chips but today I > hadn’t had any of those for 3 days and still had bad gas.  Maybe maybe > but I don’t see how nicotine can cause those kinds of problems.  It > sounds to me like every thing that can be blamed on quitting smoking > was put on that list and then some.  If something bad happens, blame > it on quitting.  I’m sorry, but that is BS.  I don’t believe it, I do > believe it’s just an excuse. > EXCUSE, that which a person uses to keep from being held accountable. > I am accountable.  If I flop I have only myself to blame.  If I win, I > have only myself to pat on the back.  All of those symptoms happen > whether you smoke or don’t smoke. > Sorry I am being in a bitchy mood right now, I am really craving a cig > in the worst way.  I am bored to tears and considering a bath and > going to bed early.  Of course I don’t have my sleeping medicine yet > so that means I’ll lie there for a couple of hours, sigh. > Oh poo. > Ozmee has Quit for 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 30 minutes, 24 seconds, > not smoking 523 cigarettes, saving $   57.37, and saving 1d 19h 35m > of life.

Response:

>Thanks, Bren!  I have a link to their main webpage on my Novenders Site, >but I hadn’t ever ventured into the withdrawal phase of the site.  Very >good info!

You have to wade thro’ lots of advertising to find it, but their is loads of relevant info on that site it seems

Response:

Right in the middle of reading this, as usual OE decided to put me back at the stupid top!  That happens a lot and really pisses me off. It happens when the program goes and checks the mail I think, which I have set for every 3 minutes. So okay, gas is bad, we were blaming it on the Wow chips but today I hadn’t had any of those for 3 days and still had bad gas.  Maybe maybe but I don’t see how nicotine can cause those kinds of problems.  It sounds to me like every thing that can be blamed on quitting smoking was put on that list and then some.  If something bad happens, blame it on quitting.  I’m sorry, but that is BS.  I don’t believe it, I do believe it’s just an excuse. EXCUSE, that which a person uses to keep from being held accountable. I am accountable.  If I flop I have only myself to blame.  If I win, I have only myself to pat on the back.  All of those symptoms happen whether you smoke or don’t smoke. Sorry I am being in a bitchy mood right now, I am really craving a cig in the worst way.  I am bored to tears and considering a bath and going to bed early.  Of course I don’t have my sleeping medicine yet so that means I’ll lie there for a couple of hours, sigh. Oh poo. Ozmee has Quit for 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 30 minutes, 24 seconds, not smoking 523 cigarettes, saving $   57.37, and saving 1d 19h 35m of life.

Response:

> http://www.quitsmokingsupport.com/withdrawal1.htm

Thanks, Bren!  I have a link to their main webpage on my Novenders Site, but I hadn’t ever ventured into the withdrawal phase of the site.  Very good info! *hugs* BB (who also has a link to Lane’s site posted there;^) > Bren, > this is *very* informative. Do you have the URL to the site this came > from? > I’d like to visit it. > TIA, > Lane, DOF+, f3as3, QB

–    BinnieBee – A Proud Old Fogie!         %%       (—-)      ( >__< )      ^^ ~~ ^^      ~f3as3~ Quit since 11/01/2001 http://binniebee.com http://fortyperks.com

Response:

> oh dear god. can you two go any lower?? > paula

OMG ::::::look of sheer astonishment:::::: :::::rubbing eyes:::::::::; Somebody pinch me.. this is a weird dream… <eg> K

Response:

> This group is so awesome!!  It even has a copyrightable ‘piss > expert’!!  I’ll make sure to avoid the OJ and stick with cranberry > juice instead.  Thanks Kita.

That’s right, so don’t let me find you quoting all my research without proper credit over at alt.golden.shower!! LMAO > Pat >       -14 Days Before I Quit Smoking >         (not much of a meter : (  

14 days to assemble a quit tool box.. It will make all the difference!! GL! Kita (copyrightable piss expert, and don’t you forget it) Psssssssssssss

Response:

> > This group is so awesome!!  It even has a copyrightable ‘piss expert’!!

I’ll make sure to avoid the OJ and stick with cranberry > juice instead.  Thanks Kita. > That’s right, so don’t let me find you quoting all my research without

proper credit over at alt.golden.shower!! oh dear god. can you two go any lower?? paula

Response:

> Drinking lots of water and orange juice. (Orange juice increases the > acidity of one’s urine, which speeds up nicotine’s departure from your > body. Orange juice and other citrus should not be used by NRT’ers.. > unless you want to pee out that expensive patch nicotine!!!)

This group is so awesome!!  It even has a copyrightable ‘piss expert’!!  I’ll make sure to avoid the OJ and stick with cranberry juice instead.  Thanks Kita. Pat       -14 Days Before I Quit Smoking         (not much of a meter : (   snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Except for quoted sources, all above is: > All Rights Reserved > Quote references can be found at > http://smokefree.diaryland.com/020929_45.html > YMMV, IMHO, please consult a doctor ETC

Response:

 I have just read about the part about acidity in the > urine thing from a library book about quitting smoking.  The book > recommended to take one teaspoon of baking soda in a glass of water daily to > rid the body of nicotine.

Hi Mibabet! Odd the thing about the baking soda. Baking soda is a buffer, our bodies are usually "too" acidic to start with.. so baking soda should bring the urine to a neutral pH. But maybe it was more for the overall health effects. A lot of natural health people are into adjusting one’s pH to neutral… ?? Don’t know. Cool that the vites worked for you too, tho kita

Response:

I totally agree with all that is said here!!!  I have said it before too. Especially Vitamin B and Calcium along with C and multi is excellent in helping with a quit!!!  Vitamin B most of all.  Not trying to sell anything, but if anyone is interested I would be more than glad to help anyone that really, really work!!!  I have just read about the part about acidity in the urine thing from a library book about quitting smoking.  The book recommended to take one teaspoon of baking soda in a glass of water daily to rid the body of nicotine. Cheers— mibabet

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here’s some natural supplements (predominantly vitamins and minerals) > that studies have shown to help quits. I researched quite a bit before > I quit, and here is what I found. This is from my online diary and was > written at the beginning of my quit. > I’ve edited out most reference links for this post, since technical > loses the audience around here sometimes <eg>. Think some of these can > really help those having physical quit symptoms. All of the following > can be found in health food stores. > Want to post some info about the supplements I am taking and why.. > Please note: > I am not a doctor. I am not a nutritionist. I am a bozo off the > street. Do not use this information as a substitute for medical help. > This is for information and amusement purposes only. > NIACIN > One of the new theories as to why teens get addicted to smoking is > that they are actually deficient in niacin. Niacin (originally named > nicotinic acid when it was discovered in tobacco plants) is also known > as B-3. It’s molecular make-up is almost the mirror image of nicotine. > Deficiencies in niacin can cause irritability, anxiety, difficulty > concentrating and depression. Sounds a lot like smoking withdrawl! > Some also say that this is explains the food cravings, as one’s body > tries to get their needed niacin/nicotinic acid from starch foods. > ". The U.S. RDA for niacin ranges from about 15mg to about 20mg per > day, but to get that much a person needs to eat a serving of chicken , > a serving of turkey, a serving of Spinach and a bowl of fortified > cereal each day or smoke 2 packs of cigarettes." > There’s a lot of info available on nicotinic acid/niacin and smoking > available by searching the web. > Extended release Niacin (niacin form) should be avoided, as it has > been linked to some liver and or kidney damage in some people. I am > taking Inositol Hexanicotinate form of niacin (also flush-free). > At minimum, a good multi-vitamin should provide the 15-20mg per day > that two packs of smoking used to provide. I take 225mg of the > flush-free form every time I have a craving, and find that it really > helps me. > Other B vitamins > The B’s are known as the anti-stress vitamins. They are best taken in > conjunction with one another, as an excess in one may cause a > deficiency in another. So taking a B-complex is a good way to get all > your B’s. Too much B6 is dangerous, so check that you are not getting > over the max amount for that. (Only likely to happen if you are taking > more than the recommended dosage of the B-complex). > I have found B5 (pantothenic acid) to be especially helpful at > reducing stress. > Vitamin C > The info on C and smoking is threefold. One, studies show that C & E > prevent some lung damage while you are still smoking. Two, vit C > increases your urine alkalinity. High acid urine increases nicotine > and niacin removal, increasing your withdrawl symptoms. One place says > Niacin and Vit C help this, another site says don’t take Niacin with > citrus. I don’t know the answer to that. Anyway, three: a study showed > that those who sprayed Vit C spray into their mouths before the > sickarette smoked less and quit sooner, etc. > injections lost more weight than placebo. Hey, it can’t hurt.. > DMAE > One site said six weeks of DMAE use helped people quit smoking. > DMAE is said to help with brain fog. As a precursor to acetylcholine, > theoretically it should help with the mental stress of > no-more-nicotine. DMAE is often called a Smart Drug. > Also I am taking a multi-vitamin and mineral and St. John’s Wort. > Although St. John’s Wort does NOT act like Zyban, I am taking it in > advance of any problems. It has helped with "cabin fever" SAD for me > in the past. During my last quit I did feel mildly depressed many > months into my quit, so I hope the St. John’s Wort might help with > that. It is not for immediate quit help, but rather for long term quit > success. > I also have on hand homeopathic nonsmoking pills, and lots of > chamomile tea and chamomile homeopathic tabs. Plus my B-complex has > various anti-stress herbs in it. > Drinking lots of water and orange juice. (Orange juice increases the > acidity of one’s urine, which speeds up nicotine’s departure from your > body. Orange juice and other citrus should not be used by NRT’ers.. > unless you want to pee out that expensive patch nicotine!!!) > (Last quit I tried the cream of tartar in my OJ, don’t think it did > much to speed up the CT). Also, I’m taking the occasional ibuprofen > for headache. > I am not taking any nicotine replacement. I do think that it is wise > to help the body in it’s recovery, via nutrition, vitamins and other > supplements. > (again, this is not medical advice.) > I guess the St. John’s Wort is helping since I haven’t noticed any > depression this quit. Also, as I phase out some of the supplements > above (like the chamomile tabs etc), I have added some blood sugar and > diet supplements (I buy coffee and a beverage mix that include these): > Zinc, Chromium, Potassium, L-Glutamine, Taurine, Garcinia Cambodia, > Citrus Arantium, White willow bark. > Except for quoted sources, all above is: > All Rights Reserved > Quote references can be found at > http://smokefree.diaryland.com/020929_45.html > YMMV, IMHO, please consult a doctor ETC

Response:

Here’s some natural supplements (predominantly vitamins and minerals) that studies have shown to help quits. I researched quite a bit before I quit, and here is what I found. This is from my online diary and was written at the beginning of my quit. I’ve edited out most reference links for this post, since technical loses the audience around here sometimes <eg>. Think some of these can really help those having physical quit symptoms. All of the following can be found in health food stores. Want to post some info about the supplements I am taking and why.. Please note: I am not a doctor. I am not a nutritionist. I am a bozo off the street. Do not use this information as a substitute for medical help. This is for information and amusement purposes only. NIACIN One of the new theories as to why teens get addicted to smoking is that they are actually deficient in niacin. Niacin (originally named nicotinic acid when it was discovered in tobacco plants) is also known as B-3. It’s molecular make-up is almost the mirror image of nicotine. Deficiencies in niacin can cause irritability, anxiety, difficulty concentrating and depression. Sounds a lot like smoking withdrawl! Some also say that this is explains the food cravings, as one’s body tries to get their needed niacin/nicotinic acid from starch foods. ". The U.S. RDA for niacin ranges from about 15mg to about 20mg per day, but to get that much a person needs to eat a serving of chicken , a serving of turkey, a serving of Spinach and a bowl of fortified cereal each day or smoke 2 packs of cigarettes." There’s a lot of info available on nicotinic acid/niacin and smoking available by searching the web. Extended release Niacin (niacin form) should be avoided, as it has been linked to some liver and or kidney damage in some people. I am taking Inositol Hexanicotinate form of niacin (also flush-free). At minimum, a good multi-vitamin should provide the 15-20mg per day that two packs of smoking used to provide. I take 225mg of the flush-free form every time I have a craving, and find that it really helps me. Other B vitamins The B’s are known as the anti-stress vitamins. They are best taken in conjunction with one another, as an excess in one may cause a deficiency in another. So taking a B-complex is a good way to get all your B’s. Too much B6 is dangerous, so check that you are not getting over the max amount for that. (Only likely to happen if you are taking more than the recommended dosage of the B-complex). I have found B5 (pantothenic acid) to be especially helpful at reducing stress. Vitamin C The info on C and smoking is threefold. One, studies show that C & E prevent some lung damage while you are still smoking. Two, vit C increases your urine alkalinity. High acid urine increases nicotine and niacin removal, increasing your withdrawl symptoms. One place says Niacin and Vit C help this, another site says don’t take Niacin with citrus. I don’t know the answer to that. Anyway, three: a study showed that those who sprayed Vit C spray into their mouths before the sickarette smoked less and quit sooner, etc. injections lost more weight than placebo. Hey, it can’t hurt.. DMAE One site said six weeks of DMAE use helped people quit smoking. DMAE is said to help with brain fog. As a precursor to acetylcholine, theoretically it should help with the mental stress of no-more-nicotine. DMAE is often called a Smart Drug. Also I am taking a multi-vitamin and mineral and St. John’s Wort. Although St. John’s Wort does NOT act like Zyban, I am taking it in advance of any problems. It has helped with "cabin fever" SAD for me in the past. During my last quit I did feel mildly depressed many months into my quit, so I hope the St. John’s Wort might help with that. It is not for immediate quit help, but rather for long term quit success. I also have on hand homeopathic nonsmoking pills, and lots of chamomile tea and chamomile homeopathic tabs. Plus my B-complex has various anti-stress herbs in it. Drinking lots of water and orange juice. (Orange juice increases the acidity of one’s urine, which speeds up nicotine’s departure from your body. Orange juice and other citrus should not be used by NRT’ers.. unless you want to pee out that expensive patch nicotine!!!) (Last quit I tried the cream of tartar in my OJ, don’t think it did much to speed up the CT). Also, I’m taking the occasional ibuprofen for headache. I am not taking any nicotine replacement. I do think that it is wise to help the body in it’s recovery, via nutrition, vitamins and other supplements. (again, this is not medical advice.) I guess the St. John’s Wort is helping since I haven’t noticed any depression this quit. Also, as I phase out some of the supplements above (like the chamomile tabs etc), I have added some blood sugar and diet supplements (I buy coffee and a beverage mix that include these): Zinc, Chromium, Potassium, L-Glutamine, Taurine, Garcinia Cambodia, Citrus Arantium, White willow bark. Except for quoted sources, all above is: All Rights Reserved Quote references can be found at http://smokefree.diaryland.com/020929_45.html YMMV, IMHO, please consult a doctor ETC

Response:

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER I have had enough of trying to be stable .. I cant sleep,work,THINK! or I sleep forever when I’m drugged up on clonazepam (GREAT OPTION HUH)…. Then just awake to the manic state "CLEAN" " …. MUST DO EVERYTHING IN RECORD TIME .. HEAD SPINNING.. So, tonight I have drunk a bottle of wine, THEN BEER.. and will finish off the rest of my tablets tonight (and whatever else I can damn well find)… I want to sleep like sleeping beauty and awake when I have a desire to live, which I doubt I have unless its through damn guilt. I am only here because I don’t want to hurt my fianc