Depression Recovery

Question:

bad for me? smoking is bad for me? as an addict that didn’t matter one bit! my husband on the other hand quit smoking because "smoking is bad for i smoked because i was MAD, SAD, GLAD, AFRAID, ASHAMED, or HURT! (to name a few) same reasons that i drank! — read and post daily, it works! rosie http://www.geocities.com/readandpost/ROSIE.html  intolerant and kindness from the unkind. I should not be ungrateful to those teachers                                                  k.gibran

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me scrape together the meager allotment of brain cells I have > today and see if something other than garbled eccentric rambling comes > out.  By the way, I’d like you all to meet Stan.  Stan is typing for > me since I don’t have voice recognition software, and the > straightjacket is somewhat encumbering when it comes to typing. > Apparently the conga line of dancing hippos in tutus was just too much > of an overload for my psyche, so it was Bellevue-time for Sassykins. > Now, insanity aside (I’ll just store it on the ledge in a little black > box), let’s see about this issue.  Cigarettes are "bad" for you.  No > shit.  Forget about the pre-warning label days, it’s been known for > long enough that cigarettes are bad for you.  So my point is, however > long you smoked cigarettes for is just about the same amount of time > you spent rationalizing the fact that cigarettes are bad for you away > into nice little denial size pieces.  Therefore using the "cigarettes > = bad for you" ideology alone isn’t going to help you sustain your > quit very well, since old rationalization can revisit you in a weak > moment and you’ll basically either be screwed, or suffering needlessly > by having to fight the old desire to smoke again.  That whole riding a > bide analogy. > What seems to be a benefit of the 12-step style is that it seems to > bypass the "cigarettes = bad for you" thing entirely and stays with > the "just don’t do it" thing.  No rationalization, just the decision > to stop and stay stopped or else, you just can’t smoke.  Well, maybe > I’m oversimplifying, but shit, it took this long for the idea to get > through my thick skull, so maybe if someone using this method would be > willing to explain it better, I might be able to listen a little more > intelligently this time. > Due to this thick-skull syndrome, I couldn’t use that method for > longer than three months.  This was about the same time the brain fog > started thinning.  My brain cells started kicking around and having > fights at recess, and generally acted like a roving band of hoodlums. > They didn’t want to be told what to do, they didn’t care about being > bad, they didn’t care what happened all the way down in my lungs, or > to the consistency of my skin, or any off that stuff. > Fuck no, they had needs too!  They had thoughts and emotions to bury! > Which is why I had to start rooting around down at the bottom of my > urges and cravings.  It’s a crappy process, but once you get through > it, you feel a little weight go off your shoulders.  Eg: > I want a cigarette. > Why? > Because.  I just want one! > Is it because you’re feeling depressed?  Anxious? > No, I’m frustrated.  At myself. > Why? > I don’t know. > Well, what’s happened recently? > I don’t want to talk about it!  Just let me have a fucking cigarette > so I can get this pressure out of my head! > Breathe.  Now, why are you frustrated? > Because I forgot to do something, and it may be too late now, and I > may wind up in a tight spot. > Have you tried to contact someone about it?  Do you know for a fact > that it’s too late? > No.  No. > Well, let’s start there, and then move on. > But . . . > You’re worrying about unknowns!  Make them known first.  Find a > solution.  You’re creating your own stress!  And use this for a lesson > in the future, write things down, don’t procrastinate, and keep > remembering to breathe. > Yes mom. : P > Smartass. : ) > Well, except in my head, there aren’t any smiley faces.  Heh.  The > point is, I used to use a cigarette to lessen the > depression/anxiety/frustration, and then deal with the problem.  Or, > since I wasn’t feeling any particular emotion, continue to ignore the > problem, which usually made it worse, which made me feel worse, which > made me smoke more, and so on . . . now I just work through it, and > wind up less bogged down by life, and able to cope better with new > troubling situations. > Ok, Stan is getting tired of typing and wants to download some porno, > plus I’m going to need him to scratch my nose.  So, make of it what > you will, write your own conclusion.  Or disagree entirely.  Your > call.  : ) > Sassy She-Spock, > Boldly Going Nowhere > Eight months, two weeks, three days, 22 hours, 1 minute and 39 > seconds. 3913 cigarettes not smoked, saving $761.10. Life saved: 1 > week, 6 days, 14 hours, 5 minutes.

Response:

Hi, Skimmer! What Diane has said is pretty much on the mark.  There are huge chemical / organic changes that take place in the brain when we eliminate nicotine. I also think there can be additional psychological components that can be exaggerated by these changes, and it’s difficult to sort out one from the other.  These would be a sense of deprivation, loss and grief (cigarettes were your best friend), and the experience of strong emotional reattachment- nicotine does a very neat job of deadening our emotions and when we quit some of us find that we’re feeling things with an intensity we aren’t used to.  The floodgates open, and emotional stuff that you’ve not dealt with can come out again. Anyway, sorting through the emotional soup that often occurs as a result of quitting is an interesting and daunting task, and I sure don’t know a standard, one-size-fits-all answer to it.  I think it’s really a pretty individual thing for each quitter. Hugs, Elle 4m Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Skimmer, Needless to say, I did quite a bit of research on this when I got so depressed.  The research indicates that cigarettes (and I’m not convinced it is just the nicotine) have some anti-depressant action.  Some smokers are "self-medicating" and masking a depression with their smoking.  When they quit, the depression is revealed. In addition, the stress of learning whole new ways to live and cope can increase anxiety and, in some people, exacerbate a depression. Just work with your Dr. and you will work throught it fine.  It is a painful process at times but well worth it. good luck. sherry 8m Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Skimmer wrote…

<<What I’ve really been wondering is whether a lot of smokers are depressed but don’t know it until they quit smoking, or, does the prolonged use of nicotine cause changes to chemicals and neurotransmitters and so forth in the brain, and then taking away the nicotine leaves the brain chemicals and neurotransmitters and so forth all screwy for a period of time, and that’s what is manifested in depression? In other words, is the big quit smoking depression psychological, or is it chemical? I’d be interested in opinions on this. I vote for chemical, myself.>> I think 2/3 of the population are depressed. Interesting thoughts you had. I don’t know….probably some were already depressed and some maybe did have their brains messed with by foreign pollutants which changed its neurological components perhaps. With all the crap that we used to take into our bodies by the cigs I think anything’s possible. My guess would be that quitting is such a trauma both emotionally and physically that the lack of nicotine coming in produces a sort of depression from organic (chemical) roots. Sorta like post partum depression from giving birth. The mother’s not depressed over her child (which would be a psychological depression)–she’s depressed simply due to a natural upheaval in her body’s regulatory systems (organic/physiological), YMMV. I’m not taking any anti-depressants so I cannot speak about their effectiveness of cutting back on cravings, but I did pop a couple St. Johns Worts about a week ago. I had been feeling kind of tired so I took them as a natural sort of No-Doz.:) It probably was all in my mind as the bottle clearly said NOT to expect the brain levels to feel euphoric for at least 2 weeks…..but, about 4 hours later I *did* begin to feel VERY chipper and happy as well as very alert. (remember that study 10 yrs ago about the people given placebos in a test to treat a cold, and even though they weren’t really given cough medicine but merely just sugar capsules, they *still* insisted they felt so much better! HA!) Well, I really liked the feeling I made myself imagine came from ingesting the Wort stuff, so I took 2 more, and promptly became very sick. So sick in fact that absolutely NO thoughts of smoking a cigasrette entered my mind. It just wasn’t at all compatible with gazing at the insides of a white toliet bowl and thinking, "You know, you can see alot from this angle…next week I really need to scrub this better…." Yuck. I’m feeling sick remembering that day. — Holly (who can’t recall how she got on this subject anyhow) 1 wk, 4 days +

Response:

Every bit of scientific evidence I’ve ever seen says it’s chemical.  Nicotine uses the same neuroreceptors as acetylcholine, a major neurotransmitter that controls, among other things, moods.  That is how nicotine can effect our emotions so significantly.   For most people removing the nicotine causes minor and/or temporary depression, but they recover after a few weeks to a few months.  Others require medication.  There is not a direct correlation between people who suffered depression before they quit and people who suffer long-term depression after they quit.  It is not know if  depression causes people to start smoking, or if smoking contributes to depression.  Truthfully, there isn’t a lot know about depression and smoking.  Period.   If you do a search on Deja under acetylcholine or depression or neurotransmitters at the alt.support.stop-smoking forum, you will find more information.  I have made a few general posts about depression, but most of my more recent posts have been about manic depression, or bipolarity, which is a different subject entirely, so they will be of less use to you.   Good luck with your continued quit – and congratulations on getting help instead of going back to smoking. Diane M. 6M+/12M+

<snipped> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What I’ve really been wondering is whether a lot of smokers are depressed > but don’t know it until they quit smoking, or, does the prolonged use of > nicotine cause changes to chemicals and neurotransmitters and so forth in > the brain, and then taking away the nicotine leaves the brain chemicals and > neurotransmitters and so forth all screwy for a period of time, and that’s > what is manifested in depression? In other words, is the big quit smoking > depression psychological, or is it chemical? I’d be interested in opinions > on this. I vote for chemical, myself. > skimmer > Three months, two weeks, one day > Exactly the point I have come to Sassy.  Only, I haven’t been in > a straight jacket with a helper. > It’s all mushed in my mind with the concept of deromancing a > cigarette.  "If I could only smoke, I would not feel x, y and z; > and I would feel GREAT!!" > The tough part has been owning x, y and z, without falling into > a depression about how much I suck.  Quitting can be a > complicated process.  I’m getting to the point where it’s OK to > be a procastinator or a little sloppy or maybe even selfish. (Oh, > NO!!  What a step!!  You all know now I am not perfect!!  I was > keeping that a secret!!!).   And then the next step is owning > that I am not, because of this, a worthless excuse for a human > being and not worthy of breath (interesting choice of words). > Not everyone is thrown into these soul searching states by > quitting.  I was and am.  But I see the other side now…with the > help of antidepressants and AS3!! > sherry > 8m > Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. > Up to 100 minutes free! > http://www.keen.com

Response:

At the three month mark, I realized I would not survive without antidepressants. At that time I first tried a nicotine patch for a couple of days, but it didn’t really help, so I went to the doctor and got a prescription for Zyban, since it is an antidepressant and also could help me fight off my desire to return to the love of my life: Marlboro Man. Like many of you, I’m having to re-learn how to live, how to recognize and treasure simple pleasures, how to make sure I have little things to look forward to. When I smoked, I always had having a smoke to look forward to. But so much for my *sob* story. What I’ve really been wondering is whether a lot of smokers are depressed but don’t know it until they quit smoking, or, does the prolonged use of nicotine cause changes to chemicals and neurotransmitters and so forth in the brain, and then taking away the nicotine leaves the brain chemicals and neurotransmitters and so forth all screwy for a period of time, and that’s what is manifested in depression? In other words, is the big quit smoking depression psychological, or is it chemical? I’d be interested in opinions on this. I vote for chemical, myself. skimmer Three months, two weeks, one day

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Exactly the point I have come to Sassy.  Only, I haven’t been in > a straight jacket with a helper. > It’s all mushed in my mind with the concept of deromancing a > cigarette.  "If I could only smoke, I would not feel x, y and z; > and I would feel GREAT!!" > The tough part has been owning x, y and z, without falling into > a depression about how much I suck.  Quitting can be a > complicated process.  I’m getting to the point where it’s OK to > be a procastinator or a little sloppy or maybe even selfish. (Oh, > NO!!  What a step!!  You all know now I am not perfect!!  I was > keeping that a secret!!!).   And then the next step is owning > that I am not, because of this, a worthless excuse for a human > being and not worthy of breath (interesting choice of words). > Not everyone is thrown into these soul searching states by > quitting.  I was and am.  But I see the other side now…with the > help of antidepressants and AS3!! > sherry > 8m > Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. > Up to 100 minutes free! > http://www.keen.com

Response:

Exactly the point I have come to Sassy.  Only, I haven’t been in a straight jacket with a helper. It’s all mushed in my mind with the concept of deromancing a cigarette.  "If I could only smoke, I would not feel x, y and z; and I would feel GREAT!!" The tough part has been owning x, y and z, without falling into a depression about how much I suck.  Quitting can be a complicated process.  I’m getting to the point where it’s OK to be a procastinator or a little sloppy or maybe even selfish. (Oh, NO!!  What a step!!  You all know now I am not perfect!!  I was keeping that a secret!!!).   And then the next step is owning that I am not, because of this, a worthless excuse for a human being and not worthy of breath (interesting choice of words). Not everyone is thrown into these soul searching states by quitting.  I was and am.  But I see the other side now…with the help of antidepressants and AS3!! sherry 8m Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Yes!  Sassy, this is why I cringe every time I see someone come here who is paying money to go to a smoking cessation class where they show pictures of tar-laden lungs and go through endless tedium on the details of smoking related illness.  We all KNOW that junk.  It’s obviously not effective as a deterrent, because it sure didn’t stop any of us from continuing to smoke. The two most important words, and I mean THE most important words in my vocabulary right now are still "No Negotiating!".  I can work through all the other stuff, and much of it is helpful in getting me to where I want to be in the long term, but in the day to day trenches where this war is fought, those two words are the ones that save my ass time after time. Hugs, Elle 4m – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me scrape together the meager allotment of brain cells I have > today and see if something other than garbled eccentric rambling comes > out.  By the way, I’d like you all to meet Stan.  Stan is typing for > me since I don’t have voice recognition software, and the > straightjacket is somewhat encumbering when it comes to typing. > Apparently the conga line of dancing hippos in tutus was just too much > of an overload for my psyche, so it was Bellevue-time for Sassykins. > Now, insanity aside (I’ll just store it on the ledge in a little black > box), let’s see about this issue.  Cigarettes are "bad" for you.  No > shit.  Forget about the pre-warning label days, it’s been known for > long enough that cigarettes are bad for you.  So my point is, however > long you smoked cigarettes for is just about the same amount of time > you spent rationalizing the fact that cigarettes are bad for you away > into nice little denial size pieces.  Therefore using the "cigarettes > = bad for you" ideology alone isn’t going to help you sustain your > quit very well, since old rationalization can revisit you in a weak > moment and you’ll basically either be screwed, or suffering needlessly > by having to fight the old desire to smoke again.  That whole riding a > bide analogy. > What seems to be a benefit of the 12-step style is that it seems to > bypass the "cigarettes = bad for you" thing entirely and stays with > the "just don’t do it" thing.  No rationalization, just the decision > to stop and stay stopped or else, you just can’t smoke.  Well, maybe > I’m oversimplifying, but shit, it took this long for the idea to get > through my thick skull, so maybe if someone using this method would be > willing to explain it better, I might be able to listen a little more > intelligently this time. > Due to this thick-skull syndrome, I couldn’t use that method for > longer than three months.  This was about the same time the brain fog > started thinning.  My brain cells started kicking around and having > fights at recess, and generally acted like a roving band of hoodlums. > They didn’t want to be told what to do, they didn’t care about being > bad, they didn’t care what happened all the way down in my lungs, or > to the consistency of my skin, or any off that stuff. > Fuck no, they had needs too!  They had thoughts and emotions to bury! > Which is why I had to start rooting around down at the bottom of my > urges and cravings.  It’s a crappy process, but once you get through > it, you feel a little weight go off your shoulders.  Eg: > I want a cigarette. > Why? > Because.  I just want one! > Is it because you’re feeling depressed?  Anxious? > No, I’m frustrated.  At myself. > Why? > I don’t know. > Well, what’s happened recently? > I don’t want to talk about it!  Just let me have a fucking cigarette > so I can get this pressure out of my head! > Breathe.  Now, why are you frustrated? > Because I forgot to do something, and it may be too late now, and I > may wind up in a tight spot. > Have you tried to contact someone about it?  Do you know for a fact > that it’s too late? > No.  No. > Well, let’s start there, and then move on. > But . . . > You’re worrying about unknowns!  Make them known first.  Find a > solution.  You’re creating your own stress!  And use this for a lesson > in the future, write things down, don’t procrastinate, and keep > remembering to breathe. > Yes mom. : P > Smartass. : ) > Well, except in my head, there aren’t any smiley faces.  Heh.  The > point is, I used to use a cigarette to lessen the > depression/anxiety/frustration, and then deal with the problem.  Or, > since I wasn’t feeling any particular emotion, continue to ignore the > problem, which usually made it worse, which made me feel worse, which > made me smoke more, and so on . . . now I just work through it, and > wind up less bogged down by life, and able to cope better with new > troubling situations. > Ok, Stan is getting tired of typing and wants to download some porno, > plus I’m going to need him to scratch my nose.  So, make of it what > you will, write your own conclusion.  Or disagree entirely.  Your > call.  : ) > Sassy She-Spock, > Boldly Going Nowhere > Eight months, two weeks, three days, 22 hours, 1 minute and 39 > seconds. 3913 cigarettes not smoked, saving $761.10. Life saved: 1 > week, 6 days, 14 hours, 5 minutes.

Before you buy.

Response:

Let me scrape together the meager allotment of brain cells I have today and see if something other than garbled eccentric rambling comes out.  By the way, I’d like you all to meet Stan.  Stan is typing for me since I don’t have voice recognition software, and the straightjacket is somewhat encumbering when it comes to typing. Apparently the conga line of dancing hippos in tutus was just too much of an overload for my psyche, so it was Bellevue-time for Sassykins. Now, insanity aside (I’ll just store it on the ledge in a little black box), let’s see about this issue.  Cigarettes are "bad" for you.  No shit.  Forget about the pre-warning label days, it’s been known for long enough that cigarettes are bad for you.  So my point is, however long you smoked cigarettes for is just about the same amount of time you spent rationalizing the fact that cigarettes are bad for you away into nice little denial size pieces.  Therefore using the "cigarettes = bad for you" ideology alone isn’t going to help you sustain your quit very well, since old rationalization can revisit you in a weak moment and you’ll basically either be screwed, or suffering needlessly by having to fight the old desire to smoke again.  That whole riding a bide analogy. What seems to be a benefit of the 12-step style is that it seems to bypass the "cigarettes = bad for you" thing entirely and stays with the "just don’t do it" thing.  No rationalization, just the decision to stop and stay stopped or else, you just can’t smoke.  Well, maybe I’m oversimplifying, but shit, it took this long for the idea to get through my thick skull, so maybe if someone using this method would be willing to explain it better, I might be able to listen a little more intelligently this time. Due to this thick-skull syndrome, I couldn’t use that method for longer than three months.  This was about the same time the brain fog started thinning.  My brain cells started kicking around and having fights at recess, and generally acted like a roving band of hoodlums. They didn’t want to be told what to do, they didn’t care about being bad, they didn’t care what happened all the way down in my lungs, or to the consistency of my skin, or any off that stuff. Fuck no, they had needs too!  They had thoughts and emotions to bury! Which is why I had to start rooting around down at the bottom of my urges and cravings.  It’s a crappy process, but once you get through it, you feel a little weight go off your shoulders.  Eg: I want a cigarette. Why? Because.  I just want one! Is it because you’re feeling depressed?  Anxious? No, I’m frustrated.  At myself. Why? I don’t know. Well, what’s happened recently? I don’t want to talk about it!  Just let me have a fucking cigarette so I can get this pressure out of my head! Breathe.  Now, why are you frustrated? Because I forgot to do something, and it may be too late now, and I may wind up in a tight spot. Have you tried to contact someone about it?  Do you know for a fact that it’s too late? No.  No. Well, let’s start there, and then move on. But . . . You’re worrying about unknowns!  Make them known first.  Find a solution.  You’re creating your own stress!  And use this for a lesson in the future, write things down, don’t procrastinate, and keep remembering to breathe. Yes mom. : P Smartass. : ) Well, except in my head, there aren’t any smiley faces.  Heh.  The point is, I used to use a cigarette to lessen the depression/anxiety/frustration, and then deal with the problem.  Or, since I wasn’t feeling any particular emotion, continue to ignore the problem, which usually made it worse, which made me feel worse, which made me smoke more, and so on . . . now I just work through it, and wind up less bogged down by life, and able to cope better with new troubling situations. Ok, Stan is getting tired of typing and wants to download some porno, plus I’m going to need him to scratch my nose.  So, make of it what you will, write your own conclusion.  Or disagree entirely.  Your call.  : ) Sassy She-Spock, Boldly Going Nowhere Eight months, two weeks, three days, 22 hours, 1 minute and 39 seconds. 3913 cigarettes not smoked, saving $761.10. Life saved: 1 week, 6 days, 14 hours, 5 minutes.

Response: